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  • Piezak

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Feb 24, 2024
    70
    18
    Mooresville, IN
    Came across something for which I was oblivious. My wife and I were out of town and on the way back we stopped at Rural King in Martinsville. We were taking in the descriptions and information which the attendant behind the gun counter was walking us through.

    If you look at my original description of the handguns which we are seeking ....
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/took-long-enough.547355/post-9857001
    Our main concerns are that it is easy to rack and that we get a 22 and a 9mm which are fairly similar in layout, button positions, actions, etc. That way our older minds shouldn't have to grapple with which one do we have now, how is it different; in short if the moment of need should be thrust upon us, we shouldn't have to make any "oh yeah" mechanical decisions with the piece itself.

    At Rural King, we were handling and sliding the slides of numerous semi-autos; we shuffled our feet along as the attendant described the next and on to the next we scooted making our way along the gun case.

    What took me by surprise is that those non-easy-to-rack 9mm handguns require differing amounts of force to rack. I didn't expect that. Somehow, without much consideration, I had conceived the notion that there were a few easy-to-rack models and all the rest were all hard to rack and about as hard as each other. What I learned was that some non-easy-to-rack models are easier to rack than others; and some quite noticeable. Ding. Ding. Ding.

    Once that concept had lit up a small space in my old brain, it made perfect sense. Not all barrels are the same length; not all recoil springs are the same; not all slide masses are the same. And there may be many fundamental differences in the internal mechanisms.

    And interestingly, my tiny little wife was more able to rack some than others. Hmmm. Perhaps this opens up the possibility spectrum of potential firearms which we might acquire.

    Are there any measurements of these forces? Someone have data?
     

    patience0830

    .22 magician
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    Rating - 96.6%
    28   1   0
    Nov 3, 2008
    17,976
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    Not far from the tree
    Came across something for which I was oblivious. My wife and I were out of town and on the way back we stopped at Rural King in Martinsville. We were taking in the descriptions and information which the attendant behind the gun counter was walking us through.

    If you look at my original description of the handguns which we are seeking ....
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/took-long-enough.547355/post-9857001
    Our main concerns are that it is easy to rack and that we get a 22 and a 9mm which are fairly similar in layout, button positions, actions, etc. That way our older minds shouldn't have to grapple with which one do we have now, how is it different; in short if the moment of need should be thrust upon us, we shouldn't have to make any "oh yeah" mechanical decisions with the piece itself.

    At Rural King, we were handling and sliding the slides of numerous semi-autos; we shuffled our feet along as the attendant described the next and on to the next we scooted making our way along the gun case.

    What took me by surprise is that those non-easy-to-rack 9mm handguns require differing amounts of force to rack. I didn't expect that. Somehow, without much consideration, I had conceived the notion that there were a few easy-to-rack models and all the rest were all hard to rack and about as hard as each other. What I learned was that some non-easy-to-rack models are easier to rack than others; and some quite noticeable. Ding. Ding. Ding.

    Once that concept had lit up a small space in my old brain, it made perfect sense. Not all barrels are the same length; not all recoil springs are the same; not all slide masses are the same. And there may be many fundamental differences in the internal mechanisms.

    And interestingly, my tiny little wife was more able to rack some than others. Hmmm. Perhaps this opens up the possibility spectrum of potential firearms which we might acquire.

    Are there any measurements of these forces? Someone have data?
    Technique has a lot to do with ability to cycle a semi-auto pistol as well. Try holding the slide and pushing the grip forward. Makes a difference sometimes.
     

    Mgderf

    Grandmaster
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    43   0   0
    May 30, 2009
    18,040
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    Lafayette
    One more thing to consider.
    Most semi-autos will get easier (to a point) to rack the slide once the gun has been broken in.
    Things are usually pretty snug from the factory, but loosen up a bit after some use, and proper lubrication.

    Most guns you see at a gun counter are packaged in some type of preservative, not a lubricant.
    A simple cleaning and lube helps wonders.
     

    ditcherman

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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
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    In the country, hopefully.
    OP I don’t have any data but that’s a great question, and congratulations on your discovery along the journey!

    I would venture to guess that a larger, longer barreled, heavier gun will either be easier or at least perceived to be easier to rack than a smaller lighter gun. Like you said, barrel length but also more mass, leading to lighter springs.
     

    indyblue

    Guns & Pool Shooter
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    4   0   0
    Aug 13, 2013
    3,672
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    Indy Northside `O=o-
    Most guns you see at a gun counter are packaged in some type of preservative, not a lubricant.
    A simple cleaning and lube helps wonders.
    The corrosion inhibitor is definitely not a lubricant.

    Since an ounce of aerogel goes such a long way, I use it on slide to frame interfaces, I just brush it on with a small artist paintbrush. it really makes the action much smoother.
     

    russc2542

    Master
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    24   0   0
    Oct 24, 2015
    2,129
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    Columbus
    Once your wife learns to rack a pistol properly, she'll be able to manage anything from a TCP to a Desert Eagle.

    There are a multitude of factors, Spring preload, spring rate, and how compressed it gets when fully back primarily. Hammer fired guns add the same measurements of the hammer spring as well as mechanical advantage against the hammer (BTW they will be easier if the hammer's already cocked). Things like texture, surface area, and shape will play into the ergonomics of how heavy it feels even if the weight is the same.
     

    Piezak

    Plinker
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 24, 2024
    70
    18
    Mooresville, IN
    Here is an update for our quest for a pair of handguns. Earlier in this thread, I was feeling somewhat confident that we were going to obtain a pair of Smith & Wesson's. These are the two handguns which we seemed most focused on ...
    S&W P 22
    S&W Performance 9 Shield EZ
    Easy pull or some other easy-to-rack is a hopeful feature in our decision.

    We've been waiting for the first gun store to get back to us in regard to our wishes/needs. Part of the story which I had not mentioned previously on IndianaGunOwners.com was that we would also be seeking some sort of 'red dot' or green. However, this may be a problem.

    My wife and I stopped at a different gun store on Tuesday and spent some time speaking with the attendants. One of the attendants was searching through online features, etc. It seems that the Smith & Wesson Performance Center 9mm cannot have a red dot mounted to it. Doesn't come that way, and according to the attendants, it is too risky to have it machined to accommodate one; not much material in that area of the slide.

    They showed us a different Smith & Wesson which can accept a red dot, but then the Smith & Wesson 22 which we were considering as sort of the little sister to the 9mm also has the issue of not accepting a red dot.

    As we were getting our heads wrapped around this new information. (And this may be why the first gun store hasn't gotten back to us?) The helpful attendants starting presenting other makes and searching other alternatives. We were there quite a while and time flew by.

    Near the end of our visit, we were focused on a totally different pair of handgun options. The Sig Sauer SG322C-B-RXZE and a Sig Sauer P320 M18. My wife and I could both rack the 9mm. Both of these pistols are optics ready. The only issue that I had with the P320 M18 was the color. I am not fond of two-tone dessert sand. It just doesn't move me. And, this piece is only (apparently) available in black to Law Enforcement individuals only; for whatever reason. Other than that these pieces seem like they would serve us well.

    As we drove off in the car, my wife and I agreed; it is confusing.

    I would be glad to hear any thoughts. Thanks!
     

    WebSnyper

    Time to make the chimichangas
    Rating - 100%
    59   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
    15,674
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    127.0.0.1
    Here is an update for our quest for a pair of handguns. Earlier in this thread, I was feeling somewhat confident that we were going to obtain a pair of Smith & Wesson's. These are the two handguns which we seemed most focused on ...
    S&W P 22
    S&W Performance 9 Shield EZ
    Easy pull or some other easy-to-rack is a hopeful feature in our decision.

    We've been waiting for the first gun store to get back to us in regard to our wishes/needs. Part of the story which I had not mentioned previously on IndianaGunOwners.com was that we would also be seeking some sort of 'red dot' or green. However, this may be a problem.

    My wife and I stopped at a different gun store on Tuesday and spent some time speaking with the attendants. One of the attendants was searching through online features, etc. It seems that the Smith & Wesson Performance Center 9mm cannot have a red dot mounted to it. Doesn't come that way, and according to the attendants, it is too risky to have it machined to accommodate one; not much material in that area of the slide.

    They showed us a different Smith & Wesson which can accept a red dot, but then the Smith & Wesson 22 which we were considering as sort of the little sister to the 9mm also has the issue of not accepting a red dot.

    As we were getting our heads wrapped around this new information. (And this may be why the first gun store hasn't gotten back to us?) The helpful attendants starting presenting other makes and searching other alternatives. We were there quite a while and time flew by.

    Near the end of our visit, we were focused on a totally different pair of handgun options. The Sig Sauer SG322C-B-RXZE and a Sig Sauer P320 M18. My wife and I could both rack the 9mm. Both of these pistols are optics ready. The only issue that I had with the P320 M18 was the color. I am not fond of two-tone dessert sand. It just doesn't move me. And, this piece is only (apparently) available in black to Law Enforcement individuals only; for whatever reason. Other than that these pieces seem like they would serve us well.

    As we drove off in the car, my wife and I agreed; it is confusing.

    I would be glad to hear any thoughts. Thanks!
    To make it more confusing, pay attention to what optic footprints some of these optic ready guns can handle. Not all can handle the optic you might choose, and may require a plate to mount.

    You might check out the Sig 365 X-macro as well, or possibly just a different 320. The 365 series has several good options for optics that are not too expensive and readily available and can direct mount without a plate.
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
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    8   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,830
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    Madison Co Indiana
    We own three Sig M17 pistols, we have shot the **** out of two of them. Love them.
    I don't think I have seen a regular 320 with a manual safety. I believe you can add one. I really haven't paid much attention the last two years or so.
    I would just call Sigs customer line and ask them.

    Personally buy both of them. The color of the M18, who really cares.
     

    DadSmith

    Grandmaster
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    1   0   0
    Oct 21, 2018
    22,718
    113
    Ripley County
    We own three Sig M17 pistols, we have shot the **** out of two of them. Love them.
    I don't think I have seen a regular 320 with a manual safety. I believe you can add one. I really haven't paid much attention the last two years or so.
    I would just call Sigs customer line and ask them.

    Personally buy both of them. The color of the M18, who really cares.
    You mean your Sigs haven't shot you yet?
     

    NHT3

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    53   0   0
    Here is an update for our quest for a pair of handguns. Earlier in this thread, I was feeling somewhat confident that we were going to obtain a pair of Smith & Wesson's. These are the two handguns which we seemed most focused on ...
    S&W P 22
    S&W Performance 9 Shield EZ
    Easy pull or some other easy-to-rack is a hopeful feature in our decision.

    We've been waiting for the first gun store to get back to us in regard to our wishes/needs. Part of the story which I had not mentioned previously on IndianaGunOwners.com was that we would also be seeking some sort of 'red dot' or green. However, this may be a problem.

    My wife and I stopped at a different gun store on Tuesday and spent some time speaking with the attendants. One of the attendants was searching through online features, etc. It seems that the Smith & Wesson Performance Center 9mm cannot have a red dot mounted to it. Doesn't come that way, and according to the attendants, it is too risky to have it machined to accommodate one; not much material in that area of the slide.

    They showed us a different Smith & Wesson which can accept a red dot, but then the Smith & Wesson 22 which we were considering as sort of the little sister to the 9mm also has the issue of not accepting a red dot.

    As we were getting our heads wrapped around this new information. (And this may be why the first gun store hasn't gotten back to us?) The helpful attendants starting presenting other makes and searching other alternatives. We were there quite a while and time flew by.

    Near the end of our visit, we were focused on a totally different pair of handgun options. The Sig Sauer SG322C-B-RXZE and a Sig Sauer P320 M18. My wife and I could both rack the 9mm. Both of these pistols are optics ready. The only issue that I had with the P320 M18 was the color. I am not fond of two-tone dessert sand. It just doesn't move me. And, this piece is only (apparently) available in black to Law Enforcement individuals only; for whatever reason. Other than that these pieces seem like they would serve us well.

    As we drove off in the car, my wife and I agreed; it is confusing.

    I would be glad to hear any thoughts. Thanks!
    I see you haven't passed the threshold for DMs yet so direct communication isn't available for you . I'm at Parabellum a couple of times a week and would be happy to meet with you there and go over some options with you. It can be somewhat of a confusing puzzle but you have a good plan going in. If you would like to email me let me know and I'll share it with you here.
     

    ditcherman

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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
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    In the country, hopefully.
    I see you haven't passed the threshold for DMs yet so direct communication isn't available for you . I'm at Parabellum a couple of times a week and would be happy to meet with you there and go over some options with you. It can be somewhat of a confusing puzzle but you have a good plan going in. If you would like to email me let me know and I'll share it with you here.
    Mods should let them post a bunch of one liners to let them in the door to pm’s. Or somehow bump them over.
    This kind is what we’re here for.

    OP I have found the Sig 320’s to be great, reliable guns.
    Mine have no external thumb safety, when Creedmoor above talks about his , he has external thumb safeties on his.
    I’m not sure if the 322 even comes with a thumb safety. It might be worth not trying to have matching pistols, just something that works for both.

    I know the FDE color is a turn off for you, but the 320’s are extremely modular, and for $60 you can have a new OEM black frame, (I’d give you one but not cut for safety), you might be able to trade an fde slide for a black.
    I know that’s a lot to try to understand with everything else you’re taking in.
    Keep on keeping on.

    ETA @NHT3 i bet a mod can pm him your email. I reported my own post as a suggestion.
     

    gassprint1

    Expert
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    6   0   0
    Dec 15, 2015
    1,206
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    NWI
    Mods should let them post a bunch of one liners to let them in the door to pm’s. Or somehow bump them over.
    This kind is what we’re here for.

    OP I have found the Sig 320’s to be great, reliable guns.
    Mine have no external thumb safety, when Creedmoor above talks about his , he has external thumb safeties on his.
    I’m not sure if the 322 even comes with a thumb safety. It might be worth not trying to have matching pistols, just something that works for both.

    I know the FDE color is a turn off for you, but the 320’s are extremely modular, and for $60 you can have a new OEM black frame, (I’d give you one but not cut for safety), you might be able to trade an fde slide for a black.
    I know that’s a lot to try to understand with everything else you’re taking in.
    Keep on keeping on.

    ETA @NHT3 i bet a mod can pm him your email. I reported my own post as a suggestion.
    Reading thru this, i see the 50 rule thing a problem with this type of communication BUT i think you have found the answer to this issue. Great idea....as long as the recipient gives permission or asks a mod to relay email info to the op, it's good. Well done ditcherman....
     

    marvin02

    Don't Panic
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    56   0   0
    Jun 20, 2019
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    Calumet Twp.
    Ugh.... Taurus.... outstanding guns in the same sentence..... it's too early for this!!!

    END THREAD. REPORTED.....
    The TX22 competition model and the compact are both good firearms and provide a good .22 training platform, especially if you prefer a manual safety

    The full size TX22 is very similar to an M&P 2.0 9mm.
     
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