Random violence stats I've compiled

[jsharmon7]

It will be interesting to see if the statistics bear that out over time. Currently, I'm not sure they do.

Yeah, maybe an assumption, but I don't think it could ever lower your odds of survival.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, maybe an assumption, but I don't think it could ever lower your odds of survival.

Agreed. And I'm not bashing training at all, just recognizing that it may not be as important as other factors: specifically, attitude. The Warrior Spirit.

Another issue with BBI's numbers is the number of people in his available population that have training. He's specifically excluding LEOs (although if they are off-duty, I would argue that they should be included), so in Indy, I'm not sure how many victims he'll find that have "real" training. I could be wrong, though.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It will be interesting to see if the statistics bear that out over time. Currently, I'm not sure they do.

I'd say a proper training class that reinforced how terrible off body carry was, that carrying on an empty chamber was bad, disguising your draw stroke, and either ditching the thumb safety or practicing until you couldn't get it wrong would have increased the success rates.

 

[injb]

It looks like the victim and suspect are usually in direct contact. Maybe assuming you'll only have the use of one hand, and training accordingly would be a good take away from this?

 

[yepthatsme]

Thanks BBI! This is great, real world information. I would be interested in distance vs win also. It would be interesting to know if the Tueller Drill helped with the distance and wins. Keep up the great posts!

 

[Cameramonkey]

Awesome info as usual BBI. May it take you a long time to compile more stats and update your charts. Yeah, I know its not gonna happen, but we can hope for fewer incidents.

Just one question, what is a "Handgun-other" ? Derringer?

 

[Thor]

Good information...and good news too.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Awesome info as usual BBI. May it take you a long time to compile more stats and update your charts. Yeah, I know its not gonna happen, but we can hope for fewer incidents.

Just one question, what is a "Handgun-other" ? Derringer?

Derringer, Double Tap, those tiny NAA revolvers (yes, technically a revolver but given the differences of needing to remove the cylinder to reload, etc. I removed them from the standard revolver category), and the rifle caliber handguns (AR or AK pistol), and the SMG clones sold as handguns (Skorpion, etc.) are what I had in mind with handgun-other.

 

[Alamo]

Very interesting. Does seem to track with other studies/sources.

For those who used guns, didn't see subcategories for "focused on front sight", "point shooting", "just happy to make noise", etc . Do you have any feel for that? Same with one-hand grip versus two? I sort of doubt there's that much data collected, but would be interesting to know.

 

[level0]

BBI, this is a great thread. Thanks so much for the time and effort you have put into this already! I don't bookmark many threads, but I am bookmarking this one.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I'd say a proper training class that reinforced how terrible off body carry was, that carrying on an empty chamber was bad, disguising your draw stroke, and either ditching the thumb safety or practicing until you couldn't get it wrong would have increased the success rates.

The thumb safety gave me more fits than I expected. I've trained with it, and had decided I need to swap out for a firearm without one already. The last class provided the catalyst to re-affirm that decision.

I also ran into an issue with a topped off mag +1 using blazer aluminum cased. About 1 out of 5 strings, the 2nd round would get hung up. I then realized how little training I do with a topped off mag (12+1). Even at FNS I only run production (11+1). That sent me to the range to systemattically test brass target ammo topped off (replenishing after each shot) to discover it was sucessful. And then of course, the more expensive (and important) experiment with the SD rounds I currently use.
Luckily everything worked just fine, and it would appear only the aluminum cased blazer causes me issues. But it's certainly something to be aware of with all future EDC's in my family.

 

[91FXRS]

Great thread BBI i'm hooked! Can you tell more about victim killed reaching for weapon? In glove box? Too late to draw?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Great thread BBI i'm hooked! Can you tell more about victim killed reaching for weapon? In glove box? Too late to draw?

It was off body carry. Off body carry was also a leading issue in the 'tie'.

 

[tbhausen]

Great info. Subscribed.

 

[Bill of Rights]

BBI, this is a great thread. Thanks so much for the time and effort you have put into this already! I don't bookmark many threads, but I am bookmarking this one.

Great info. Subscribed.

At least one guy bookmarking it, at least one subscribing...

I'mma go one further. BBI, thank you for compiling this info, and congrats on getting your thread "stuck". It should be very easy for people to find now.

Rep inbound.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Expat]

 

[Bill of Rights]

Awesomesauce.


Humbly, I think it should be a breakdown in each of the "shots fired" categories.

Something like this, that could be relatively transferred to a pivot table:

Total Shots During Encounter	Shots Prior to Resolution	Victim outcome (w/l)
Victim	Criminal	Total	Victim	Criminal	Total

[noparse]

Total Shots During Encounter	Shots Prior to Resolution	Victim outcome (w/l)
Victim	Criminal	Total	Victim	Criminal	Total

[/noparse]

OK, HTF did you get the table in the post? I could have saved a butt ton of time formatting if I could have figured that out.

Copy/paste, but when you paste into the reply, make sure you are in "advanced." There is a button with "table properties." Click that with the table selected and have it show borders (grid). Caveat: some vBB versions are better at tables than others. INGO's current one is ok, but not great. Some formatting will get wonky, in my limited experience using tables here.

Or if you want to do it "old school", you can just use the tags, as I've edited his original in this reply to show.

Using his table, I'll put in some random numbers below. My edits are in red:

Total Shots During Encounter	Shots Prior to Resolution	Intended Victim outcome (w/l)
Victim	Criminal	Total	Victim	Criminal	Total
1​	0​	1​	1​	0​	1​	Win​

And finally, his table, my edits, without added color tags:
[noparse]

Total Shots During Encounter	Shots Prior to Resolution	Intended Victim outcome (w/l)
Victim	Criminal	Total	Victim	Criminal	Total
1​	0​	1​	1​	0​	1​	Win​

[/noparse]

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[eldirector]

Nice charts!

Still want my pie chart, though.

 

[yepthatsme]

It was off body carry. Off body carry was also a leading issue in the 'tie'.

I know that "off body" is a very general term. I was just wondering if the victims were injured or tied due to having to move a fair distance to retrieve their firearm or if their firearm was within reach when it was needed? That may be asking for a little more detail than you would like to spend time on or maybe this type of information isn't available.

Good thread BBI.

 

[T.Lex]

Or if you want to do it "old school", you can just use the tags, as I've edited his original in this reply to show.

Showoff.