Redbrush IDPA - limiting our shooting area

[SMHurt]

We are limited to no more than 18 rounds per stage in IDPA and IDPA Headquarters want stages with fewer rounds because the stages are supposed to be realistic. Having said that, IDPA is still a game and we should not forget that. It is not possible to have stages with large round counts like USPSA. Now you understand why I love shooting USPSA and Jake Martens matches. Hell, last year I shot a match of his and fired around 330 rounds in one day.

I guess my complaint for the BOD is we have been going by the rules but because other shooting sports at Redbrush are not ..... we are getting punished. IDPA operates in good faith. We give the membership an opportunity to compete with a handgun instead of just plinking at pumpkins.

If you've never been to Atlanta Indiana for a match, the range is around a very large hill. Yes, you walk completely around the hill shooting in pistol bays. So, if your on the westside of the hill shooting towards the east, someone is on the eastside of the hill shooting towards the west. (hope you can understand that) I would like to see three more smaller pistol bays near the lake or where Steve has been holding his sidematches. It could work very easily, in fact, you might be able to put more than three small pistol bays. They do not need to be 50 or 100 yards. You could shoot towards the west into the hill or berm.

Remember, IDPA Redbrush is just a branch of Redbrush. Everything IDPA owns belongs to Redbrush and we are at the BOD mercy to keep shooting each month. The BOD at Redbrush dictates to IDPA.

The Redbrush membership has grown a ton over the years but the range has not. They have tried to do something with the land near the lake but right now its not really a good area although it could be. It doesn't need to be real fancy. Just put in a couple of more small bays.

Just a though ...... I'm just sayin'.

 

[scowens]

Talked to the Red Brush President today. He saw me and on his own, took the time to discuss this with me. That was cool. As Scott says it was the shooters coming wanting to use the bays, but not shoot in the which ever match that was going on. Also that match apparently had few Red Brush members since a majority of them/us are plinkers. IDPA has had roughly 12-15, or about a 3rd of match shooters, members. Still, this compared to the 700+ members of Red Brush is a small ratio. This data was used at the meeting the BOD had. This has been brewing for quite a while, from what I understand. And there have been several heart felt discussions that the members of the BOD have been in. I really appreaciate that Mike talked to me.
I did mention that there are several new shooters that come to the IDPA matches and experience shooting for the first time. Also that in the new member apps, there seems to be quite a few new members that have put IDPA on the apps. I have not heard this from other shooting sports that go on at Red Brush. Yes, I may be jaded, but I really don't think I am. As Mike said, that's data that would have to be dug up from the apps.
Red Brush is growing, and IDPA is growing, but the range is not. Asked Mike if we could change that (land) and he did say that he was working with a local land owner about this.
Guys, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. You know that, and I know that. It's my opinion that the IDPA shooters I've met are a quiet type, that just gets things done. Probably why I hang around. If you are a member, please come to the Thursday meetings....if you're not a member, join up, be active! We need a voice. Anyway, 'nuff 4 now.

DustyDawg: back off on the side match...I haven't even done my hair yet today! Save yer ammo, I'll get something for you to waste it on, just gimme some time....

 

[DustyDawg48]

DustyDawg: back off on the side match...I haven't even done my hair yet today! Save yer ammo, I'll get something for you to waste it on, just gimme some time....

No worries there; I'd hate to see you running around with your curlers still in your hair trying to get things organized LOL

If Red Brush would reconsider having the time spent on making the IDPA shoots work, count towards the mandated work hours that would go a long way. I'd join RB but paying dues and 8 work hours there plus dues and work hours at WSSC...well, I'm not looking for a 2nd job or a 2nd place to live

 

[sbcman]

I can assure you the Board was aware of this. This is in fact a rule for all competition groups mandated by the board. I was on the board when we passed that rule. It had become a problem because, way back, a large shooting match org was taking up all the bays and were rather arrogant about it.

Would this have been USPSA? Just wondering because it might help me put together a narrative I've heard from other folks about Redbrush.

One way we've dealt with this issue at Marion County Fish and Game (IndyRange.com) is to make sure we offer a $5 discount for club members on normal match fees. What we've seen is that initially many of our regulars weren't members (which ticks off members that visitors are using the range they help pay for), but as time went on most regulars joined the club. Now we've got about 75% of our regulars as members, and our club membership has increased dramatically.

We also split revenue from our matches (half goes towards the club, half towards the program) so that nobody can complain that a program doesn't "pull it's weight". These simple changes have boosted membership and kept everybody friendly because we're all working for the improvement of the club. Now different disciplines want to see others do well, because we all benefit if a match is successful. While these types of issues are bound to come up, the only way that groups are going to get a voice at our local clubs is to get involved.

Good ideas!

Mike- could the WSSC host matches like IDPA? I've never been there but watched an entire PBS show the other day about that range and the cowboy matches. It didn't show the range, however, so I don't know how it's laid out.

 

[Twentyfootdaredevil]

I am a member and I plan on making a couple of the IDPA shoots. I have no problem standing with the IDPA guys and helping out.

Right now my main concern is shooting with my family. I hope to get my wife and daughter into the bowling pin shoots while I do things like IDPA and some rifle comps.

 

[chizzle]

Would this have been USPSA? Just wondering because it might help me put together a narrative I've heard from other folks about Redbrush.



Good ideas!

Mike- could the WSSC host matches like IDPA? I've never been there but watched an entire PBS show the other day about that range and the cowboy matches. It didn't show the range, however, so I don't know how it's laid out.

Thanks for the positive feedback. I know when we did a careful accounting of our club program income, we were really surprised at what we found. In some cases programs that we thought "paid the bills" actually were losing money every year, while some of the small programs that we thought were "scraping by" were actually bringing in a solid income for the club. Once we reassessed these fees and found a structure that worked (reduced member match fees and splitting revenue), everything started to come together. If your program isn't contributing to the club's bottom line, it's a lot easier to get rid of it, than if your program is paying the bills. If every program is contributing, it is amazing what a club can accomplish!

An added perk for us is that if a program is extremely successful, it's half of the revenue goes towards improvement. Whether that is a new trap house, nicer steel targets, or some new gear, it is nice to know that all your hard work helped make your program better.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Mike- could the WSSC host matches like IDPA? I've never been there but watched an entire PBS show the other day about that range and the cowboy matches. It didn't show the range, however, so I don't know how it's laid out.

The WSSC has a combat shooting committee that is trying very hard to secure some money to do improvements to their berms and the range in order to hold matches. They don't have the number of bays but with the improvements they are planning, the rifle range and the entire cowboy town they could have a ton of room. It would be in it's infancy and they aren't planning on trying anything official until the spring of next year but they are serious about it and it could give everybody an opportunity to shoot defensive pistol twice a month.

 

[sbcman]

Thanks for the positive feedback. I know when we did a careful accounting of our club program income, we were really surprised at what we found. In some cases programs that we thought "paid the bills" actually were losing money every year, while some of the small programs that we thought were "scraping by" were actually bringing in a solid income for the club. Once we reassessed these fees and found a structure that worked (reduced member match fees and splitting revenue), everything started to come together. If your program isn't contributing to the club's bottom line, it's a lot easier to get rid of it, than if your program is paying the bills. If every program is contributing, it is amazing what a club can accomplish!

An added perk for us is that if a program is extremely successful, it's half of the revenue goes towards improvement. Whether that is a new trap house, nicer steel targets, or some new gear, it is nice to know that all your hard work helped make your program better.

This is all good stuff, in my opinion. I think other clubs are realizing this and that is why the clubs most welcoming to shooting sports are rockin and those that aren't just sort of fade away. The one in Jasper comes to mind. For whatever reason some of the folks there don't care for pistol shooting sports (or pistol shooting, I guess, since they only have one bay on probably 30 acres of land for it) although they seem heavily involved in long gun shooting sports. It would take the club to the next level to embrace something like a full on USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, etc match.

The WSSC has a combat shooting committee that is trying very hard to secure some money to do improvements to their berms and the range in order to hold matches. They don't have the number of bays but with the improvements they are planning, the rifle range and the entire cowboy town they could have a ton of room. It would be in it's infancy and they aren't planning on trying anything official until the spring of next year but they are serious about it and it could give everybody an opportunity to shoot defensive pistol twice a month.

First off- "Combat Shooting Committee" is awesome. I might consider joining wssc just to try and get on that committee- great name.

Secondly, I hope it all comes together for them. It would be great to have another chance to shoot matches close at hand.

 

[Mudcat]

Thanks for the positive feedback. I know when we did a careful accounting of our club program income, we were really surprised at what we found. In some cases programs that we thought "paid the bills" actually were losing money every year, while some of the small programs that we thought were "scraping by" were actually bringing in a solid income for the club. Once we reassessed these fees and found a structure that worked (reduced member match fees and splitting revenue), everything started to come together. If your program isn't contributing to the club's bottom line, it's a lot easier to get rid of it, than if your program is paying the bills. If every program is contributing, it is amazing what a club can accomplish!

An added perk for us is that if a program is extremely successful, it's half of the revenue goes towards improvement. Whether that is a new trap house, nicer steel targets, or some new gear, it is nice to know that all your hard work helped make your program better.

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[bwframe]

This is all good stuff, in my opinion. I think other clubs are realizing this and that is why the clubs most welcoming to shooting sports are rockin and those that aren't just sort of fade away. The one in Jasper comes to mind. For whatever reason some of the folks there don't care for pistol shooting sports (or pistol shooting, I guess, since they only have one bay on probably 30 acres of land for it) although they seem heavily involved in long gun shooting sports. It would take the club to the next level to embrace something like a full on USPSA, IDPA, ICORE, etc match.

Chizzle and Coach along with other club admins, got the message to me years ago about supporting the shooting sports through supporting the clubs. This year again I will pay the dues to support the clubs where I shoot matches. 3 of the memberships I renew are out of driving range for much other than matches and the occasional meeting to vote on what is in our interests.

 

[Mudcat]

Chizzle and Coach along with other club admins, got the message to me years ago about supporting the shooting sports through supporting the clubs. This year again I will pay the dues to support the clubs where I shoot matches. 3 of the memberships I renew are out of driving range for much other than matches and the occasional meeting to vote on what is in our interests.

I too do this at some of the ranges where I do Appleseeds at. It goes a long way in letting the clubs know you are interested in what is going on. If doing it for matches it really pays for its self. Say $5 a match price difference for members and nonmembers adds up to $60 at just 1 match a month. Just shooting IDPA then you pay $10 to have a vote or say in what happens.
Now is not the time to say I don't like what the club is doing so I will not renew or join. Now is the time to join (too late to renew if you have lapsed) and try to change things.

I know I will not attend a shoot at WSSC ever again. I will not shoot on the line with people who are drinking. Once was enough for me.

 

[chizzle]

Now is not the time to say I don't like what the club is doing so I will not renew or join. Now is the time to join (too late to renew if you have lapsed) and try to change things.

+1

 

[SMHurt]

Good post Mudcat!

 

[parkerj112]

Bump. Anybody have more info? Match seemed to go reasonably well. Bay 1 & 2 only had ~7 people at them during the match.

I would like to thank Steve for still putting together a side match, and all those whom worked to make the match happen.

Parker

 

[Titanium_Frost]

More info about what? Did you not get the email?

 

[parkerj112]

What email? If you are talking about the results for the match, yes I got it. But I was hoping for more info on the bay limiting "problem".

Parker

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I was on the wrong thread, sorry! I thought you were wanting the scores from the match. Steve was worried he didn't get them all out.

 

[parkerj112]

No problem.

 

[scowens]

I don't have any news. Subject was not discussed in meeting during the open section. DustyDawg and I will be drawing up COF's for next match. Any suggestions, or comments you would want to make to us would be appreaciated. It is tempting to get our width back by "turning" a COF, but this will get into the 180 rule. And we/I will not break that, so we'll see.

 

[parkerj112]

One of the COFs that we ran this month was a "gas station" were we moved further into the bay as we shot. I though that it was one of the larger courses and it took up little width in it's bay. More courses like this might be good. Also I have been wanting to see a course similar to working your way down a hallway in an office building during an active shooter scenario.

Thanks and keep up the good work,
Parker