Review: Vortex Razor Red Dot

[esrice]

Well im not a gun expert but I know that in most self defense situations with a handgun you dont even use your sights at all.

I believe the value in a pistol-mounted RDS is in allowing one to be more effective at longer ranges that what is typical for handguns today. Same goes for shots that require more precision than is typical.

i will say that the value of carrying with a reddot could probably make its own thread instid of running the review up

value in running a reddot on a carry peice - INGunOwners

I don't mind particularly, as it just keeps bumping the review. But we can go play in the other thread.

I'd love to see him run that same scenario again with a red dot.

Not a bad idea actually. . . .

 

[esrice]

Sorry not sure what you are talking about.I must have missed this thread.

Its a classic. lol

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...vehicle_at_50yds_with_a_pistol_pics_vids.html

 

[Sylvain]

I believe the value in a pistol-mounted RDS is in allowing one to be more effective at longer ranges that what is typical for handguns today. Same goes for shots that require more precision than is typical.

I know but you can hardly do long range shooting and claim that your life was in danger, in most situations anyway.
Maybe it could be good for a LEO who could take a gunman at long range without having to go back to his car to get his long gun.
But for most self defense scenarios if your attacker is that far away that you need a red dot sight then it's probably not a threat to you anymore.
And as a non-LEO you should just run away from the threat insteed of engaging it at long range.

 

[cedartop]

I know but you can hardly do long range shooting and claim that your life was in danger, in most situations anyway.
Maybe it could be good for a LEO who could take a gunman at long range without having to go back to his car to get his long gun.
But for most self defense scenarios if your attacker is that far away that you need a red dot sight then it's probably not a threat to you anymore.
And as a non-LEO you should just run away from the threat insteed of engaging it at long range.

Really?? So a Fort Hood or similar situation where the lives of many are in danger, and you have a long shot, you are just going to "run away"? As for up close shooting, if it is reactive then the RDS does not slow you down, and if it is proactive then you have more accurate shot, where is the downside for EDC? As far as "most" self defense shootings goes, that is like saying typical. If you are only preparing for the "typical" situation, then why bother preparing at all, as chances are you will never need your gun anyway. I guess that is why most here don't bother with training in the first place.

 

[rhino]

Well im not a gun expert but I know that in most self defense situations with a handgun you dont even use your sights at all.
You just draw and point at your target, even point blank shooting in many situations.

Really?

Really?? So a Fort Hood or similar situation where the lives of many are in danger, and you have a long shot, you are just going to "run away"? As for up close shooting, if it is reactive then the RDS does not slow you down, and if it is proactive then you have more accurate shot, where is the downside for EDC? As far as "most" self defense shootings goes, that is like saying typical. If you are only preparing for the "typical" situation, then why bother preparing at all, as chances are you will never need your gun anyway. I guess that is why most here don't bother with training in the first place.

Indeed!

I commend you Suarez guys for being among the first among the "tactical" crowd to embrace this technology. Aside from size and durability issues, it is my opinion that most of the resistance in the past and currently is lack of understanding how red dots can be used at speed. But then, use of sights at speed (with things like calling shots) is not well understood by many. As with other topics, it's a knowledge and training issue.

 

[Sylvain]

Really?

I haven't seen many reports of shootings where the attacker was 25 yards away.

 

[OneBadV8]

I haven't seen many reports of shootings where the attacker was 25 yards away.

You only use your sights at certain distances? Why not use them at 7 yards even?

 

[rhino]

I haven't seen many reports of shootings where the attacker was 25 yards away.

Why would you choose to not use your sights at closer ranges? Probably a topic for another topic. I've never been in a real gun fight (thank you!), but in force-on-force training I've used my sights for pretty much every shot I've taken beyond contact distance.

You might be interested in reading some of the case studies that Tom Givens has presented about shootings involving his students. Most of them occurred at distances significantly farther than the conventional thought, which is based almost exclusively on police-involved shootings. Most of them remembered using their sights too (and got good hits).

The bottom line germaine to this topic is that using sights is always better if you can, and using sights isn't slower than not using sights unless you don't practice that way. Anything you can do with iron sights, most people can learn to do more efficiently with a red dot because it allows them to broaden their visual concentration more so than using iron sights and focusing on the threat itself is no longer a problem (i.e. you don't have to fight your natural tendency to focus on the threat). It just takes some practice.

 

[Sylvain]

Really?? So a Fort Hood or similar situation where the lives of many are in danger, and you have a long shot, you are just going to "run away"? As for up close shooting, if it is reactive then the RDS does not slow you down, and if it is proactive then you have more accurate shot, where is the downside for EDC? As far as "most" self defense shootings goes, that is like saying typical. If you are only preparing for the "typical" situation, then why bother preparing at all, as chances are you will never need your gun anyway. I guess that is why most here don't bother with training in the first place.

Those situations are just not common, that doesn't mean we shouldn't train for those.
I can take a long range shot with regular sights, sure maybe you can do it better with a red dop but you can even do it better with a rifle and a scope and I dont carry one of those around just to be even more prepared for those rare situations.
Im not saying it's a downside for EDC (even though most models are kind bulky for CC), just that I dont see the need for it on a EDC gun.

 

[GBuck]

You only use your sights at certain distances? Why not use them at 7 yards even?

Because you don't need to?

 

[Sylvain]

You only use your sights at certain distances? Why not use them at 7 yards even?

Yes at point blank range I dont use the sights at all, even if the target is a few feet away I dont focus on the front sight like some schools teach you.
I just do instinctive shooting, I believe it's how you call it, by just pointing my index finger in the direction of the target I know that my sights are on target without having to look at them.
Of course I use them if the target is a few yards away.

 

[GBuck]

I would ask you to direct your questions to HandK, V8. I'm pretty sure you'll get the answer, "You have the God-given ability to point your finger."

 

[Sylvain]

I would ask you to direct your questions to HandK, V8. I'm pretty sure you'll get the answer, "You have the God-given ability to point your finger."

That's what I do.

 

[OneBadV8]

I just think in some situations it might be harder to point shoot. What if I'm behind cover that doesn't allow me to, but I could still position the gun in a way to see the dot?

You can still point shoot with a RDS if you choose, but I'm not going to limit myself in options with SD because my life is worth it.

 

[esrice]

I would ask you to direct your questions to HandK, V8. I'm pretty sure you'll get the answer, "You have the God-given ability to point your finger."

Your EDC?

 

[GBuck]

What if I'm behind cover that doesn't allow me to, but I could still position the gun in a way to see the dot?
.

One thing that esrice and I were talking about earlier, is that if you're not looking directly on the gun/sight that it could not be acquired. Something with the design of it. So, again, you're left with point shooting.

 

[Sylvain]

I just think in some situations it might be harder to point shoot. What if I'm behind cover that doesn't allow me to, but I could still position the gun in a way to see the dot?

You can still point shoot with a RDS if you choose, but I'm not going to limit myself in options with SD because my life is worth it.

Yes "point shoot", I forgot how it was called.

Then why dont you just carry a corner shot gun just in case?

You just cant be ready for every situations, no matter if you have a red dot or not.
For me I just think that point shooting is fine for most situations, if I need longer range accuracy I just use the regular sights.

 

[OneBadV8]

I'm very interested in trying a RDS, I'm just not going to say that it has no use besides a range or comp.

 

[lovemachine]

Great review Evan!

Is the Trijicon RMR an auto shutoff?

 

[HICKMAN]

the bigger picture here being that Que TIED with a Shield