Review: Vortex Razor Red Dot

[esrice]

Is the Trijicon RMR an auto shutoff?

I honestly don't know. cedartop would be a good one to comment.

 

[cedartop]

Why would you choose to not use your sights at closer ranges? Probably a topic for another topic. I've never been in a real gun fight (thank you!), but in force-on-force training I've used my sights for pretty much every shot I've taken beyond contact distance.

You might be interested in reading some of the case studies that Tom Givens has presented about shootings involving his students. Most of them occurred at distances significantly farther than the conventional thought, which is based almost exclusively on police-involved shootings. Most of them remembered using their sights too (and got good hits).

The bottom line germaine to this topic is that using sights is always better if you can, and using sights isn't slower than not using sights unless you don't practice that way. Anything you can do with iron sights, most people can learn to do more efficiently with a red dot because it allows them to broaden their visual concentration more so than using iron sights and focusing on the threat itself is no longer a problem (i.e. you don't have to fight your natural tendency to focus on the threat). It just takes some practice.

This may be splitting hairs, but I am going to disagree, just a bit, with my friend rhino. You CAN get good solid fight stopping hits (as much as that is allowed by a handgun), at close range without using the sights. This may come into play especially if you are not in full extension, maybe some sort of retention position. Is it optimal to get to your sights? Yes! Also in my experiences in FOF I would say that the majority of our students never recall seeing their sights, much less using them. I use my sights during FOF much of the time, but I have trained to do that, and have more practice then most taking our FOF classes in doing just that.

So to bring that around to RDS. You can still point shoot with it if you need to. If you can get to the sight then do so, many find it much quicker and easier to do so in the beginning if they have good cowitnessing BUIS. Training wheels, as it were.

 

[esrice]

the bigger picture here being that Que TIED with a Shield

I downloaded to 8 rounds to be fair.

I didn't upload the video of our second round.

 

[lovemachine]

I dunno if you answered it or not, but how was the added "bulk"? Would it be a PITA to carry?

And how sturdy is the RDS? Is it sturdy enough to use it against your belt to rack the slide? And what about bumping it against hard items when it's holstered?

 

[cedartop]

Im not saying it's a downside for EDC (even though most models are kind bulky for CC), just that I dont see the need for it on a EDC gun.

Honestly, I carry my RMR G19 for about 16 hours daily with no bulk, comfort, or concealment problems.

 

[cedartop]

I dunno if you answered it or not, but how was the added "bulk"? Would it be a PITA to carry?

And how sturdy is the RDS? Is it sturdy enough to use it against your belt to rack the slide? And what about bumping it against hard items when it's holstered?

The RMR I use does not have auto shutoff or any other type of control except windage and elevation. It is always on, just like the Aimpoint on my rifle. Once a year, I replace the battery. They do make a adjustable version, I have just not seen the need for it.

They are plenty durable and work great for one handed racking of the slide. When I was showing it to a local gun store owner, he dropped it and broke his counter, but the sight was fine. As for bumping it when holstered, it will be fine, but of course my holster covers it anyway.

 

[42769vette]

I dunno if you answered it or not, but how was the added "bulk"? Would it be a PITA to carry?

And how sturdy is the RDS? Is it sturdy enough to use it against your belt to rack the slide? And what about bumping it against hard items when it's holstered?

the razor wieghs 1.4 oz so its not adding much at all

Vortex Optics - Razor Red Dot

 

[42769vette]

also i forgot to mention, anyone interested in one i have the 3 moa and the 6 moa instock ready to ship aswell as all mounting for most pistols

 

[lovemachine]

The RMR I use does not have auto shutoff or any other type of control except windage and elevation. It is always on, just like the Aimpoint on my rifle. Once a year, I replace the battery. They do make a adjustable version, I have just not seen the need for it.

They are plenty durable and work great for one handed racking of the slide. When I was showing it to a local gun store owner, he dropped it and broke his counter, but the sight was fine. As for bumping it when holstered, it will be fine, but of course my holster covers it anyway.

the razor wieghs 1.4 oz so its not adding much at all

Vortex Optics - Razor Red Dot

Thanks guys. I got some saving and thinking to do.

Maybe I can get the change to try one out too...

 

[42769vette]

Thanks guys. I got some saving and thinking to do.

Maybe I can get the change to try one out too...

when i get it back ill let you know and you can come try it out. i do think im going to mil down my slide so i can cowitness the sights. cedartop talked me into it and i dont think it will take over a hour or so

 

[esrice]

I dunno if you answered it or not, but how was the added "bulk"? Would it be a PITA to carry?

While the rig I was using would be less-than-ideal for carry, due to it being a longslide, I would have no qualms with carrying a Razor-sized optic on my M&P-- especially if it was milled into the slide making it a bit more low-profile. Its no more "bulky" than a gun with an attached weaponlight.

And how sturdy is the RDS? Is it sturdy enough to use it against your belt to rack the slide? And what about bumping it against hard items when it's holstered?

So far I have no reason to believe the Razor wouldn't take such manipulations, assuming it came loose due to repetitive recoil and not having any loctite on the mounting threads. I've heard nothing but good in regards to the ruggedness of an RMR.

 

[indyjoe]

Evan, I assume you meant to say that your wouldn't have qualms, right?

 

[42769vette]

Evan, I assume you meant to say that your wouldn't have qualms, right?

i think thats what he ment aswell

 

[esrice]

Evan, I assume you meant to say that your wouldn't have qualms, right?

i think thats what he ment aswell

Yes. Editing now. Thanks for the catch.

 

[cedartop]

also i forgot to mention, anyone interested in one i have the 3 moa and the 6 moa instock ready to ship aswell as all mounting for most pistols

What he said, diidn't mean to steal the thread. The razor may be just as durable as the RMR, I have no experience with it at this point.

 

[42769vette]

What he said, diidn't mean to steal the thread. The razor may be just as durable as the RMR, I have no experience with it at this point.

if you ever my way let me know and give the razor a try. your not stealing the thread at all. your input on this topic is extreamly valuable.

 

[dubsac]

Not to thread jack but I'd LOVE to see a sparc review

 

[bwframe]

Well im not a gun expert but I know that in most self defense situations with a handgun you dont even use your sights at all.
You just draw and point at your target, even point blank shooting in many situations.

I believe the more you use your sights, the more likely it is you will use them as much as needed. I fear the common misconception that point shooting is the be all do all leads folks to think they don't need to train or practice.

I have seen good shooters miss very close targets that weren't even a threat or shooting back.



Great review as always Evan.
I do have some questions and suggestions. Everyone I have ever seen start off new to using a RDS on a pistol has a bit of a time with consistently finding the dot. I wonder how someone less seasoned with iron sights would adapt to the RDS? It seems to me that a rock solid repetitive presentation is required for the dot to fall where the eyes are looking. In other words, the RDS is not an easy replacement for technique and iron sights, right?

I'd like to see the results of some cold shots with the RDSed guns. First off maybe a single shot, later maybe a more elaborate drill. The important part is unpracticed or warmed up. The same would go for after the drill, no hour or three of practice, just the drill until the next cold one another day. It'd be great to hear from cedartop on this too!

Honestly, I carry my RMR G19 for about 16 hours daily with no bulk, comfort, or concealment problems.

Thanks.

 

[Rookie]

My EDC.

 

[Rookie]

Fits my Raven perfectly...

Escrice, I offered to let you test drive my M&P months ago...