I'll look into 'em sometime today. Thanks.
@Jmarriott: I am unable to respond to your PM due to my low post count. Not ignoring you, lol.
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Revolver Barrel Length
- Thread starter C-Wolf
- Start date
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I'll look into 'em sometime today. Thanks.
@Jmarriott: I am unable to respond to your PM due to my low post count. Not ignoring you, lol.
I have a .357 magnum with a 2 inch barrel. I shot magnums once or twice out of it. Very unpleasant. More due to blow back than recoil. And it does have plenty of recoil. When I shoot magnums, I use my 2 revolvers with 4 inch barrels, unless they are 44 magnums. Then the barrel is 5.5 or 7.5 inches.
as others have said, a used GP100, or perhaps an old police trade in (probably in 38 spl only, not for 357mag) would be good, affordable choices.
You should be able to find used Ruger GP100s (with 3, 4, or 6" barrel) for $450-500 cash (no shipping or transfer fees)
Get up to 50 quality posts in these forums and you can use the classifieds section here to track one down.
O.P. Mentioned the use of shotshell type ammo for pest control as one of the planned uses for a revolver. Patterns are much better ( tighter) from a 2" barrel than from a longer tube- has to do with rifling in the barrel causing patterns to spread
Some nice suggestions on the S&W and Rugers for a little more money.
But I have one more, that I am shocked no one suggested, in your price range. A used Ruger Security Six can be had in excellent condition for under $400. IMHO it is a better gun than the GP100. Many Ruger fans who have both feel the same way.
Get the 6" and you get the extended sight base, extra weight to tame recoil, higher velocity, better accuracy, and better balance.
Prescut
But I have one more, that I am shocked no one suggested, in your price range. A used Ruger Security Six can be had in excellent condition for under $400. IMHO it is a better gun than the GP100. Many Ruger fans who have both feel the same way.
Get the 6" and you get the extended sight base, extra weight to tame recoil, higher velocity, better accuracy, and better balance.
Prescut
Crusader17
Marksman
I would have to agree with the popular opinion here, if you can afford it, or you're patient enough to save up for it, try and get your hands on a Ruger or a Smith. I have a Smith 586, 6-inch barrel and I love it. I didn't get to go shoot a taurus or a ruger, but they would all work I think. It might also come down to what you can find in your LGS, look around and don't be in a hurry is my advice. Gotta make the best decision for yourself at the end of the day!
can't remember if it's been clearly said, so...
For 357 magnum you'll get much better burn out of 3" or more.
The difference between 2" and 3" is pretty shocking. Plus you get a lot more flash with the unburnt powder leaving the barrel and igniting.
Then the differences start to diminish noticeably from 3 to 4", 4 to 5", etc.
There is very little difference in velocity between 5" and 6".
for me, a 4" or 5" revolver just feels best, and the sight radius is large enough that I can hit things pretty well.
For 357 magnum you'll get much better burn out of 3" or more.
The difference between 2" and 3" is pretty shocking. Plus you get a lot more flash with the unburnt powder leaving the barrel and igniting.
Then the differences start to diminish noticeably from 3 to 4", 4 to 5", etc.
There is very little difference in velocity between 5" and 6".
for me, a 4" or 5" revolver just feels best, and the sight radius is large enough that I can hit things pretty well.
+1 regarding the dramatic difference from 2" --> 3", a very measurable one from 3" --> 4", and diminishing returns after that with common .357 mag commercial load revolver cartridges.
Where you hit the diminishing returns also depends on how hot a load you're using and how fast its powder burns. Many, many years ago when I had a 4" .357 magnum, I was making 158 grain SP reloads with 14-14.5 grains of 2400 rifle powder (see WARNING about this below; these were hot loads). That's a slower burning powder that benefits more from longer barrels compared to a very fast pistol powder like Bullseye (or Unique). Bullseye is appropriate for extremely short barrel snubbies and you don't use much in a load. My 2400 reloads were rated for muzzle velocity over 1600 fps and muzzle energy in excess of 900 foot pounds. Whether I was actually achieving that with a 4" barrel I don't know as I never had a chronometer to measure it. A 6" barrel, or even an 8" barrel, would have undoubtedly increased the muzzle velocity and energy I was getting from these reloads. On a couple of occasions other shooters on the same outdoor range wondered what I was using and were in wonder that it was a .357 magnum. I never did see it from the side, but apparently it could have also doubled as a flame thrower. Dirty Harry had been released only a year or so before and they were certain it was a 4" .44 magnum running hot. One asked if it was a .41 magnum. Very large caliber magnums typically have 5" or 6" barrels for not only greater stability but greater efficacy. The upshot of this is efficacy depends on specific ammunition and barrel length. The .357 magnum, even in current commercial loads, is a powerful cartridge. It was the most powerful when created in 1934. Had Dirty Harry been made 35 years earlier in 1936, Harry Callahan would been carrying a .357.
Also concur with sight radius. I've got a small pocket .380 ACP. Its very short sight radius on it compared to a full size 1911 .45 ACP and 9mm M9 is quite noticeable. Short sight radii limit effective range. There's much greater circle probability error just in lining sights up on target. I also found a 4" barrel long enough to be effective at 25 meters with practice, whereas a 2" barrel is only good in my hands to about 10-15 meters. There's a reason LEO used 4" revolvers for many years. Short enough to be maneuverable in clearing holster and using while maintaining a sufficient sight radius for effective combat use under 25 meters, typically 15 meters or less. The motive for a barrel shorter than 4" is ability to conceal it easier.
The .357 magnum round was developed, at least in part, to give LE more penetrating power against car doors and some of the early "bullet proof" vests gangsters were using (as much for protection from other gangsters as LEOs). The .38 Special's penetration was proving marginal at best and the .357 magnum very substantially ups the ante while still being able to chamber .38 Special ammunition. The .41 magnum was also created in the early 1960's for potential LE use as an even more powerful cartridge. Loads had to be lightened some for practical use, but they still had greater stopping power than a .357. However, they never gained popularity. Compared to the .357, nearly all shooters find greater recovery time is required for a second shot, and hand fatigue sets in faster during an extended firefight with .41 and .44 magnum recoil. In addition, the .41 magnum cannot chamber an alternate lighter cartridge like the .357 and .44 magnum can. Marksmanship suffers as a consequence. As LE is discovering today, going to a larger, more powerful cartridge is not necessarily better as many that were using .40 S&W move back to the 9mm Parabellum.
As an additional historical note, General Patton's ivory grip revolvers originally started out as a matched pair of .45 (long) Colt Single Action Army. He gave one away and replaced it with a Model 27 3-1/2" barrel S&W .357 magnum circa 1935 when they were first marketed. The original rounds from the mid-1930's were rather warm compared to today's commercial ammunition, propelling a 158 grain Keith bullet at about 1500 fps (at the muzzle). The huge N-frame Model 27 could handle it easily.
John
WARNING regarding my ancient .357 mag loads:
The .357 loads I was making 45 years ago should be used with great caution; DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK!! I cited it as an example of slow burning powder benefiting more from a longer barrel compared to a fast burning one. These are "hot" loads, only for large frames and hefty barrels in excellent condition that can withstand their very high pressures. The type of bullet, not just its mass, is very important, as is precise OAL in the reload. I used load data from the bullet manufacturer and examined used cases closely. Not for smaller frame revolvers, and strongly recommend walking up to it from lighter loads (less powder, starting at about 13 grains). One must also keep the revolver barrel in particular, VERY CLEAN! Fouling increases resistance, reduces bullet velocity and increases pressures. I didn't have a chronometer available and have little doubt there was some wasted powder in a 4" barrel, especially from what observers were telling me.
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While this thread is about .357 magnum, you touch on a good point. As caliber goes up beyond the .44 magnum into hand-held howitzer realm, especially with heavy bullets with warmer loads, a 5" barrel has some advantages over a 4" barrel. These would be the .454 Casull, .460 S&W magnum, .480 Ruger and .500 S&W magnum. Not only does the additional mass help with overall recoil and muzzle flip, it allows a higher muzzle velocity and energy, which is the whole point of using one.
John
This kind of evolved into a .357 thread. 4" is probably ideal for that.
But, as the caliber goes up, the up front weight goes down. (Why I shoot .44 in a lever gun.) If you go to .44, .454, .45LC, etc. the bigger bore uses the added weight of a 4-3/4 r 5-1/2". However, I only own SAAs in those calibers, so I don't know what other framres do for you. Stainless adds another factor too.
Forget those two revolvers. Get a Smith and Wesson 686 with a 4" or 6" barrel and be done with it. The 686 will outlast either of the two cited revolvers and hold its value. Cry once over the price increase over the two you have considered and you will be much happier in the long run. Peace!
