Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status
    Not open for further replies.

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    93,533
    113
    Merrillville
    Well neither situation has materialized, so how long do you park? Maybe they're trying to break the Canadian record. Do the vehicles in the convoy have horns? ;)

    How about this.
    You are in the city, waiting for people to come into your kill zone.
    They outnumber, outtech, and outweapon you.

    Or, you can go into their killing field..


    Which do you choose?
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    12,126
    113
    Martinsville
    How about this.
    You are in the city, waiting for people to come into your kill zone.
    They outnumber, outtech, and outweapon you.

    Or, you can go into their killing field..


    Which do you choose?

    It's also helpful to do that when you hold air supremacy, lol.

    Anything approaching that convoy will be seen and destroyed readily by air power. Cities in general are a death sentence for armor.
     

    KG1

    Forgotten Man
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    66   0   0
    Jan 20, 2009
    25,638
    149
    Hey if Putin wants to go all the way back before he was even in power to bring up a non-binding promise that he wants NATO to adhere to, which predates the Budapest memorandum btw, then he must also acknowledge a binding agreement that Russia was a signatory to. Can't have it both ways.
    Another thing to bring up is was Crimea a part of Ukranian territory at the time the memorandum was signed? (I believe it was) then Putin's annexation of Crimea by force in 2014 was also a violation.
     
    Last edited:

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    93,533
    113
    Merrillville
    It's also helpful to do that when you hold air supremacy, lol.

    Anything approaching that convoy will be seen and destroyed readily by air power. Cities in general are a death sentence for armor.

    Anything approaching destroyed by anything. Air, Arty, Mines/clusters, etc.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    93,533
    113
    Merrillville
    Also, Russian units tend to operate with an Air "umbrella", and Arty.
    So, these units will not want to move out from the protection of said Arty and Air assets.
    And they don't want to MOVE those units into the city.
    The city will negate many of the advantages of those assets.
     

    Route 45

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    93   0   0
    Dec 5, 2015
    15,341
    113
    Indy
    Document Number 119 of the Gorbachev Foundation archives contains a detailed transcript of the discussion between Soviet General Secretary, Mikhail Gorbachev and US Secretary of State James Baker on February 9, 1990. This document shows that James Baker repeatedly assured Gorbachev that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) would not expand.

    "Baker: If that happens, our troops will return home. We will leave any country that does not desire our presence. The American people have always had a strong position favoring this. However, if the current West German leadership is at the head of a unified Germany then they have said to us they will be against our withdrawal. And the last point. NATO is the mechanism for securing the U.S. presence in Europe. If NATO is liquidated, there will be no such mechanism in Europe. We understand that not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction."
    He goes on to mention it not expanding three more times.

    So revisionist(or rather what is your source for saying that?). He certainly was not a founding member of WEF(1973) and was to old already to ever be in the young global leaders program.

    I can give probably 20 times Russia was told NATO would not expand.It should be a matter of a simple google search as well,but I am actually unsure about that because I use several proxies that allow me to search from other countries(and rarely with google).
    Genscher met with James Baker, prior to Baker’s February 9, 1990 meeting with Gorbachev, stressing the importance of assuring Gorbachev that NATO would not exploit events by expanding eastward. Baker embraced this policy, emphatically telling Gorbachev – three times during their meeting – that NATO would not expand eastward. Baker told Gorbachev “Americans understand the importance for the USSR and Europe of guarantees that not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”

    US and NATO members continued to assure the Soviet Union that it would not expand eastward. In March 1991, British Prime Minister John Major reaffirmed to Soviet officials that there would be no NATO expansion to the east. The United States and other countries continued to make similar assurances, and during a meeting in July 1991, Manfred Worner, the Secretary General of NATO, told Soviet officials that NATO was firmly against any expansion.
    This is all irrelevant. The Soviet Union no longer exists.
     

    Ark

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    Feb 18, 2017
    6,862
    113
    Indy
    How about this.
    You are in the city, waiting for people to come into your kill zone.
    They outnumber, outtech, and outweapon you.

    Or, you can go into their killing field..


    Which do you choose?
    Mine the highway, but I guess nobody thought of that. Blow it up and make them drive in the mud. Or, maybe they did and that's one reason progress is so slow.

    It's better to wreck the armor and as many of the troops as possible outside the city so their capitol and its people don't turn into Aleppo. I have to think if Ukraine had ANY capability to hit it on the road, all lined up and vulnerable, they'd be doing it.

    Which leads me to believe they are vastly overstating their actual remaining capabilities and have taken extreme losses to air and arty and can't even get close enough to pick them off with Javelins.
     

    Wolfhound

    Hired Goon
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    45   0   0
    Apr 11, 2011
    4,025
    149
    Henry County
    Well neither situation has materialized, so how long do you park? Maybe they're trying to break the Canadian record. Do the vehicles in the convoy have horns? ;)
    All the photos I’ve seen of that convoy is trucks sitting 3 to 4 wide on a road. Not moving and no armor in the photos. To use Brad’s terminology I think it is the tail of the Russian Army. Just sitting there parked. The Russians don’t handle support very well and that’s the only reason I can think of as to why the convoy hasn’t moved. Those trucks are full of food, ammo and spare parts for the combat arms units roaming or possibly lost in the countryside. Just my two cents.
     
    Last edited:

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    32,269
    149
    Columbus, OH

    Pershing 2​

    Which we have in Germany.Sorry....looked it up. It is out of date,and has been replaced......so yes my point is now invalid. Why we dumped a road worthy mobile nuke though is a better question at this point. Sometimes having a long term memory is a bad thing lol.
    Incidentally, the treaty with the Russians that retired the Pershing II starting in 1988, governing intermediate range land based missiles, was the very one that Trump left in 2018 because the Russians were not honoring it. The INF treaty limited all land based intermediate range missiles to a range of less than 310 miles

    Same treaty Barry accused them of breaching in 2014 but subsequently did nothing. That treaty is also why we have no land-based cruise missiles, it is all Tomahawks and ALCMs because they have too much range to be land-based under the INF
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    93,533
    113
    Merrillville
    Based on this story the convoy is 18 miles from the Capital.

    So, you have to close 16 miles, hoping no one will kill you.
    And you have to do it in a large group. Hitting one vehicle does nothing.
    but traveling in large groups increases chances of being detected.


    And people say submariners are crazy.
     

    Wolfhound

    Hired Goon
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    45   0   0
    Apr 11, 2011
    4,025
    149
    Henry County
    So, you have to close 16 miles, hoping no one will kill you.
    And you have to do it in a large group. Hitting one vehicle does nothing.
    but traveling in large groups increases chances of being detected.


    And people say submariners are crazy.
    Well, if you set out some mines and blow up some bridges maybe you could funnel them into an ambush. Providing the convoy actually approached.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Top Bottom