Sad times for Indiana matches.

[downrange72]

I wonder why people from 2 to 3 states away are Willing to drive here but people complain about 2 or 3 hours?

Area 5 steel challenge had a senior drive up from Florida to Terre Haute and shot the whole weekend.

 

[Fuzz]

I wonder why people from 2 to 3 states away are Willing to drive here but people complain about 2 or 3 hours?

Area 5 steel challenge had a senior drive up from Florida to Terre Haute and shot the whole weekend.

" SENIOR" That is the clue.

He has time on his hands. Time to kill.

I work 60 plus hours a week right now and I only shoot the matches so I can enjoy something. It's my get away. I would love to be able to help set up and all but my job right now does not give me that. When I retire then yes I may drive 6-8 hours for a match.

Next year I will be senior. But not retired. That is why I am happy to pay the price for a match.

 

[downrange72]

Well I will be at 70 hours overtime this month, logged roughly 2700 miles for work. It can be done if you want to do it

I find drive time an excuse. If you don't want to pay for a hotel I get that. If you don't want to pay for the match, I get that. Using the drive time as an excuse is just that an excuse. Be honest with yourselves and just say you dont want to go.

I've been to Ohio, TN, KY and MI to shoot their majors in the past. I'm biased but I think Indiana puts on the best. Ohio and KY matches often sell out. MO sold out this year (and it is a steel heavy match) maybe they just enjoy it more than the average hoosier

There is a reason they don't hire for me for marketing

Terre Haute is a dang near geographical oddity. It is about 2.5-3.0 hours from everywhere (Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Louisville. Seems those people can make it to our major matches with regularity.

 

[riverman67]

I have heard it said that Terre Haute is almost to St Louis

 

[rhino]

I have heard it said that Terre Haute is almost to St Louis

That is correct. It's actually impossible to get to Terre Haute from Indianapolis without passing through either St. Louis or maybe Anchorage, Alaska.

 

[Freeborn Man]

Fifteen shooters, three stages . . . everyone home by lunch time!.

And a twenty round stage was considered a high round count!

 

[Grelber]

I have heard it said that Terre Haute is almost to St Louis

I think it is more almost to Ferguson.

 

[Twangbanger]

Well I will be at 70 hours overtime this month, logged roughly 2700 miles for work. It can be done if you want to do it

I find drive time an excuse...Using the drive time as an excuse is just that an excuse. Be honest with yourselves and just say you dont want to go...

I think I pretty much did.

" SENIOR" That is the clue.

He has time on his hands. Time to kill...

Yepper. It definitely makes a difference. I shot registered trap for 15 years, and put my guns on airplanes and hauled them all over the United States hitting major shoots all year long. I planned every single vacation hour I had around it. But I wasn't married yet, and didn't have a family. Time on my hands. Not much else to do. I notched some decent accomplishments, while marveling at the skills of the top-tier shooters. But as much as I admired their abilities...I would not have "traded lives" with them for anything. Because when it gets right down to it, most of them didn't have much of one. The best of the best lived out of a Suburban all summer, and viewed their life mostly through a windshield. Myself, I was a rarity, being 20-something and going to all those shoots. Most of the serious shooters were either empty-nesters, or maybe had one kid who traveled with them and participated too. But the ones in their 20s, starting families? They were non-existent at the shoots (at least, the ones who didn't end up getting divorced and wiped out in court by their spouse).

There is a time for everything. Enjoy what you can, while you can. If costs and logistics can be kept reasonable, I see no reason why our Indiana major shoots can't continue to be successful. But the easiest thing in the world, is for shooters to decide to do something else. There has not been a shooting sport invented on this earth, yet, that is immune to crashing attendance if the participants eventually find it doesn't "do it" for them, for whatever reason.

 

[Fuzz]

Well I will be at 70 hours overtime this month, logged roughly 2700 miles for work. It can be done if you want to do it

I find drive time an excuse. If you don't want to pay for a hotel I get that. If you don't want to pay for the match, I get that. Using the drive time as an excuse is just that an excuse. Be honest with yourselves and just say you dont want to go.

I've been to Ohio, TN, KY and MI to shoot their majors in the past. I'm biased but I think Indiana puts on the best. Ohio and KY matches often sell out. MO sold out this year (and it is a steel heavy match) maybe they just enjoy it more than the average hoosier

There is a reason they don't hire for me for marketing

Terre Haute is a dang near geographical oddity. It is about 2.5-3.0 hours from everywhere (Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Louisville. Seems those people can make it to our major matches with regularity.

Oh yes it can be done. No doubt. Question is do you want too?

Lets see: 8am till 8pm Monday Through Saturday. Sunday get up at 4 am grab breakfast drive 3 hours. walk the stages, shoot the match from 9am till 3pm. Tear down 4pm on the road.stop for a bite. Drive home 3 hours fight sleep the whole way. Get home at 8 pm put stuff away. 8am back at work till 8pm until the next Sunday.

Yes it can be done.

 

[Fuzz]

I also think Deer Season has a lot to do with this Match and the low attendance.

 

[downrange72]

I get up at 4:30 Most everyday. Mostly by choice and sometimes by a 50 lbs 4 legged creature that insists I scratch her for an hour and she goes back to bed

 

[BJones]

South Centrals match this Sunday has 7 squads of 12 shooters= 84 Shooters. I hardly think USPSA is in for a slowdown

 

[downrange72]

There's no doubt that the local matches have grown. The question is why is it not translating to our major matches?

 

[Twangbanger]

There's no doubt that the local matches have grown. The question is why is it not translating to our major matches?

Maybe because local matches are 20 bucks? I can see that being a little more...but not $130 more for 3 additional stages. I mean, I do appreciate sponsors, but from the standpoint of shooters a hundred extra bucks for a "His & Hers" T-shirt is pretty steep.

(I say this from the standpoint of trying to figure out others' reasons. I personally could afford shooting one of these every month, if other concerns didn't interfere, but I am sure the money does enter into most shooters' personal ROI calculation for the day).

 

[rvb]

Maybe because local matches are 20 bucks? I can see that being a little more...but not $130 more for 3 additional stages. I mean, I do appreciate sponsors, but from the standpoint of shooters a hundred extra bucks for a "His & Hers" T-shirt is pretty steep.

There's a LOT more cost into a major. Hotels for out of town staff is huge. Water/Ice. Porta-Johns. 5-8 sets of targets per stage vs 1 for a local. and so on. If all you're looking at is cost per stage, then sure, shoot locals. If you're looking at cost for level of competition, the experience gained, ability to shoot with/against higher level of shooters, the challenge of enduring through a dozen stages, etc, then the cost/benefit swings.

A couple majors per year can be really cheap if you can find the time to be on staff.

I suspect the hunting season is a big factor as mentioned above. I tried to extend our club season a month and soon figured out I'd be the only one there....

edit: I just found out a couple days ago a work trip around the time of the state match was cancelled. Trying to figure out if I can shoot and/or work it now....

-rvb

 

[Alaskan454]

Here's my 2 cents. I love shooting in just about any form whether it's casual plinking on steel or an organized shoot with a rulebook and winner. In the last few years I've shot 2-4 matches per month between USPSA, IDPA, Cowboy, Steel, and ICORE. In all of that time I have shot precisely three major matches and only one in Indiana, the other two were in Florida and Illinois. It's not that I don't want to shoot more majors but I committed to running matches at my local club and several times that has conflicted with a bigger match elsewhere. Also, it's very difficult for me to shoot a match on Sundays and a good majority of them are ruled out there based upon other conflicts with my work schedule. Aside from that, the time commitment is bigger. Even when I'm the MD at our local club I leave my house at 7:30 and I'm always home by 3:00 even for a long match. Every now and then I'm home by 1:00 if people are moving quickly. I'd be willing to bet that many are only shooting club matches to have a little extra time on Saturday or Sunday afternoon when they get home. On top of that if you need to get a hotel or flight the cost goes up significantly. I could only justify traveling to two matches like that with my current budget, Revolver Nationals in 2017 and the International Revolver Championship in 2016.

 

[downrange72]

Maybe because local matches are 20 bucks? I can see that being a little more...but not $130 more for 3 additional stages. I mean, I do appreciate sponsors, but from the standpoint of shooters a hundred extra bucks for a "His & Hers" T-shirt is pretty steep.

(I say this from the standpoint of trying to figure out others' reasons. I personally could afford shooting one of these every month, if other concerns didn't interfere, but I am sure the money does enter into most shooters' personal ROI calculation for the day).

There are 10-12 stages not 8. But RVB covered all that goes into it.

 

[downrange72]

There's a LOT more cost into a major. Hotels for out of town staff is huge. Water/Ice. Porta-Johns. 5-8 sets of targets per stage vs 1 for a local. and so on. If all you're looking at is cost per stage, then sure, shoot locals. If you're looking at cost for level of competition, the experience gained, ability to shoot with/against higher level of shooters, the challenge of enduring through a dozen stages, etc, then the cost/benefit swings.

A couple majors per year can be really cheap if you can find the time to be on staff.

I suspect the hunting season is a big factor as mentioned above. I tried to extend our club season a month and soon figured out I'd be the only one there....

edit: I just found out a couple days ago a work trip around the time of the state match was cancelled. Trying to figure out if I can shoot and/or work it now....

-rvb

Hang tight. We will have that last minute staff cancellation or 5. Lol

 

[rhino]

There's a LOT more cost into a major. Hotels for out of town staff is huge. Water/Ice. Porta-Johns. 5-8 sets of targets per stage vs 1 for a local. and so on. If all you're looking at is cost per stage, then sure, shoot locals. If you're looking at cost for level of competition, the experience gained, ability to shoot with/against higher level of shooters, the challenge of enduring through a dozen stages, etc, then the cost/benefit swings.

A couple majors per year can be really cheap if you can find the time to be on staff.

I suspect the hunting season is a big factor as mentioned above. I tried to extend our club season a month and soon figured out I'd be the only one there....

edit: I just found out a couple days ago a work trip around the time of the state match was cancelled. Trying to figure out if I can shoot and/or work it now....

-rvb

I think that shows a big difference between two general groups of shooters: those who are motivated significantly by the competition itself and those who are not. To me, the level of competition is irrelevant. The experience gained by shooting big matches was minimally useful to me because not only do I have no chance to win, I am not interested in winning the match. Shooting with higher level shooters was interesting for the first few dozen big matches, but not so much anymore.

I realize I'm probably on the opposite end of the spectrum from you, but I'm not alone. For those of us, if shooting in the match isn't likely to provide enough fun/entertainment value to offset the investment of time and money, it's not worth doing it.

Summarizing, the cost:benefit analysis is varies dramatically from shooter to shooter because the value of the costs and the set of benefits and their values are so different. If the numbers are down, that means that for more people, the cost:benefit ratio is too high.

Now, that begs the question: should the big matches cater primarily to the top level of competitors (I say yes), or should they cater more toward a larger group of shooters that could increase participation (I say no)? I think the big matches should primarily be about the competition and providing a venue for the best to compete against each other with challenges commensurate with their ability levels. The downside of that is that it's not necessarily conducive to participation by everyone else, but I think that it's a potential tradeoff that is necessary and appropriate.

That also raises the reverse issue about club level matches and their audience. When clubs start running monthly matches more suitable for the nationals, it's not a great idea (I've seen this more in multi-gun/3-gun than any other discipline).

 

[rvb]

I think that shows a big difference between two general groups of shooters: those who are motivated significantly by the competition itself and those who are not. To me, the level of competition is irrelevant. The experience gained by shooting big matches was minimally useful to me because not only do I have no chance to win, I am not interested in winning the match. Shooting with higher level shooters was interesting for the first few dozen big matches, but not so much anymore.

I realize I'm probably on the opposite end of the spectrum from you, but I'm not alone. For those of us, if shooting in the match isn't likely to provide enough fun/entertainment value to offset the investment of time and money, it's not worth doing it.

And I'm certainly not trying to say there's anything wrong with the group who isn't as motivated by competition. I've somewhat been one of them the last few years... (this year I haven't even shot a club match out of Ft Wayne. ) But I just wanted to point out above that there is more benefit than # of stages for those who DO choose to shoot majors.

Now, that begs the question: should the big matches cater primarily to the top level of competitors (I say yes), or should they cater more toward a larger group of shooters that could increase participation (I say no)? I think the big matches should primarily be about the competition and providing a venue for the best to compete against each other with challenges commensurate with their ability levels. The downside of that is that it's not necessarily conducive to participation by everyone else, but I think that it's a potential tradeoff that is necessary and appropriate.

agree with the bold, with the caveat that A and above are usually a pretty small portion of the shooters, so there's a balance needed. (I've heard of matches called "too hard," a concept I never understood ....)

Hunting season conflicts aside, I'll go ahead and voice my thoughts...
I've not thought 3 major USPSA matches + a couple of major steel matches per year in one state to be sustainable. It's a lot of demand on the same limited pool of staff, and shooters will want to venture out to other venues. I try to support IN matches as much as possible. But I keep saying I'd like to get back to some Area matches or other majors around the region... If I only have a couple weekends I can give up per year, I have a choice to make.... support IN matches or shoot something else (and for ~7 yrs I've not shot a single match outside of IN).

That also raises the reverse issue about club level matches and their audience. When clubs start running monthly matches more suitable for the nationals, it's not a great idea (I've seen this more in multi-gun/3-gun than any other discipline).

that's a very good point. I remember days gone by when majors meant much bigger/harder stages than the club matches. So it wasn't just about the # of stages.

The flip side of that coin is it's what people expect any more.
I've heard it said many times "If I'm driving to a match and spending $20, I -expect- 32-round challenging courses w/ lots of options." We have so many matches available in such a small region, that if you want people to show up, you better put on good stages. I -enjoy- short and medium courses and standards, but I don't feel I can include them too often. People want round count. Would more people show up to majors if the typical club match stages were simpler? maybe so. Would club matches suffer if I put on simper stages? definitely.

I remember driving 1.5 to 4 hrs for club matches that had much smaller/simpler stages... club shooters in IN are spoiled.

-rvb