Saiga 12 Need Schooling please

[troy28]

I know very little about the Saiga 12 and I believe there is a number of educated members here on the subject. Besides knowing I want 12gauge I know nothing else. All USEFUL information is appreciated w/ reps

Who is quality and makes the best?

Are they as easy to work on as a AK?

What parts should I be upgrading on a new one and why?

Reliable enough to stake your life on or just fun in the back yard?

Expected price range anything else to be aware of?


Thanks for the help!

 

[gunman41mag]

I know very little about the Saiga 12 and I believe there is a number of educated members here on the subject. Besides knowing I want 12gauge I know nothing else. All USEFUL information is appreciated w/ reps

Who is quality and makes the best?

Are they as easy to work on as a AK?

What parts should I be upgrading on a new one and why?

Reliable enough to stake your life on or just fun in the back yard?

Expected price range anything else to be aware of?


Thanks for the help!

I was looking to buy a SAIGA, cause I like the price(under $500) there are 20 round drums for it, 12 round mags fot it, The reason I didn't buy was it looks like an AK-47 & I like the BENELLI M1 SUPER 90 better, but here is a C O O L video of the saiga [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_biiE4USjFQ]YouTube - Rolling with the Saiga 12, The 12 gauge from your Dreams...or are they Nightmares[/ame]

 

[SKSnut]

Great vid Gunman! Now i have to buy one

 

[shooter521]

Now i have to buy one

Unfortunately, you guys are late to the party. The recent hysteria over the ATF shotgun "study" has resulted in most if not all outlets being sold out of stock Saiga-12s, and those few that still have them are wanting big $$ (i.e. $800 prices on gunbroker, and $629 wholesale prices from distributors). I also have information that RAAC lost the import contract on the Saiga line late last year, and that the process of getting another importer in place will delay the next batch for an indeterminate period of time.

FWIW.

 

[troy28]

Unfortunately, you guys are late to the party. The recent hysteria over the ATF shotgun "study" has resulted in most if not all outlets being sold out of stock Saiga-12s, and those few that still have them are wanting big $$ (i.e. $800 prices on gunbroker, and $629 wholesale prices from distributors). I also have information that RAAC lost the import contract on the Saiga line late last year, and that the process of getting another importer in place will delay the next batch for an indeterminate period of time.

FWIW.

Well. That wasn't the best news but, still good information to learn about. For the sake of still learning about the other questions posted about the Saiga 12 lets say the above information does not inhibit a future purchase.

 

[nate77]

I know very little about the Saiga 12 and I believe there is a number of educated members here on the subject. Besides knowing I want 12gauge I know nothing else. All USEFUL information is appreciated w/ reps

Who is quality and makes the best?

Are they as easy to work on as a AK?

What parts should I be upgrading on a new one and why?

Reliable enough to stake your life on or just fun in the back yard?

Expected price range anything else to be aware of?


Thanks for the help!

Just think of these shotguns like an AK, rough around the edges, but outstandingly dependable.

They function almost exactly like an AK except for a slight difference in the gas system. They have a gas puck that separates the gas and operating rod, the AK on other had is all one piece with a gas piston being part of the operating rod.

If you want a pistol grip there is a bit of work involved, you can research that further on the Saiga 12 forum, or you can add a Tapco Intrafuse stock which is bolt on but not nearly as effective.

Also if you use a high capacity magazine your gun has to include 4 USA manufactured parts, the magazine counts as 3 so a new muzzle break or gas pucks are a cheap way to get the fourth.

Other than that happy hunting, I found mine about a year ago for $400 on gun broker.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Also worth mentioning that a few of us out here in INGO-land have "converted" them. That's the process of moving the Fire Control Group [trigger] forward. That returns it to it's original AK position and adding a pistol grip. It's a job that an adventurous beginner (like me) can do. Also changing the buttstock to something better than Monte Carlo. That's what Nate77 is mentioning above.

For the record when you hear Saiga folks say "converting" it DOES NOT mean anything like converting it to Full Auto. Some folks get confused on that. Same semi-auto - just putting the trigger back where it belongs.

There are videos to follow at CarolinaShootersSupply.com. forum.saiga-12.com is great source - but fair warning - it's a bit more R-rated than here. also look up mississippiautoarms.com and dinzagarms.com.

Keep asking around here on INGO - there's a number of people who will pop up that know what they are doing. And then there's folks like me that have just done a couple.

BTW - there's a lot of attention on the Saiga 12. They also do a 410 and a 20 - those can be had pretty more reasonably even today - I saw one of each at Ace Hardware in Scottsburg yesterday, and the prices weren't horrible. I sure wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of the 410 or the 20, either. They just don't have the resale "testosterone factor" of the 12's...

Good luck and good hunting.

 

[gunman41mag]

It doesn't hurt to look for one

 

[Tombs]

Well I won't cover anything that's already been mentioned, but I've had mine since 2004 and I haven't had any kind of malfunction that wasn't due to out-of-spec ammunition.

Stick to high brass or 3" and the gun will run no matter what. Want it to run weak loads? Don't expect it to be reliable unless you want to spend the time and money to make it run them, which it wasn't designed to run light loads in the first place.

Also stay far away from pro-mag drums, wraithmaker drums and all that garbage. For mags get surefires or AGPs, if you want a drum get an MD drum or forget about it.

 

[DMarines007]

Why are these gun prices so varied...$500 to $1500. Are there a lot of parts guns out there?

 

[Tombs]

Why are these gun prices so varied...$500 to $1500. Are there a lot of parts guns out there?

Price gouging.

I got mine in 2004 for $199.

 

[shooter521]

Why are these gun prices so varied...$500 to $1500. Are there a lot of parts guns out there?

The $1500 are most likely guns that have already been converted (back) to a traditional AK format. Stock guns should run $500-700.

 

[vitamink]

I usually see internet prices of 460-500 new and unconverted. These are obama prices as they used to be in the 2-300 range prior to his election. Professionally converted (barrel pressed off and ports drilled, welded/blended trigger guard and holes, and moly/cera/dura/coated S-12s will start out 500 over the price of the gun, i.e. $1000 and go up from there depending on how crazy you get and what all you hang off the thing.


Standard S12

At Home Converted S12

Tromix converted sbs (hk sights, upswept charging handle, muz. break, folding stock, short gas system

Whatever the hell this thing is.

Saiga 12 for 3 gun. Note the magwell and left side charging handle as well as 2 mid barrel compensators. Its almost an unfair advantage

 

[spainy79]

I'm glad I ordered my drum when I did because I went to place an order with CSS to get a 12 round mag and almost everything was sold out. Gonna have to wait on the 12 rounder.

 

[nate77]

Well I won't cover anything that's already been mentioned, but I've had mine since 2004 and I haven't had any kind of malfunction that wasn't due to out-of-spec ammunition.

Stick to high brass or 3" and the gun will run no matter what. Want it to run weak loads? Don't expect it to be reliable unless you want to spend the time and money to make it run them, which it wasn't designed to run light loads in the first place.

Also stay far away from pro-mag drums, wraithmaker drums and all that garbage. For mags get surefires or AGPs, if you want a drum get an MD drum or forget about it.

Good point on the high powered shells. When I got mine, it would only eject birdshot about 50% of the time, even with the highly touted Federal Bulk packs. Also don't waste you're money trying to fix an under gassed gun with accessories; I tried an after market gas plug, gas puck, and even a choke to increase back pressure.

The only way to get an under gassed gun to shoot birdshot, is to remove the gas block and drill the gas ports out, or if it is still under warranty you can send it to Cadiz Gun Works in Ohio, for warranty work. That’s what I did, and after returning, I haven’t had a single malfunction through hundreds of rounds of birdshot, even a few 20 round mag dumps off the hip thrown if for good measure.

 

[Tombs]

Also as a side note I got rid of the original plug for a tac indst auto-plug, that automatically regulates gas pressure so you don't have to switch it.

I can run walmart bulk packs of remington and 3inch slugs in the same magazine with 100% reliability.(THE PLUG WILL NOT IMPROVE AN UNDER GASSED GUN)
Mainly because of all the polish and profiling work inside of it, plus having a few thousand rounds downrange already.

 

[vitamink]

I'm interested in a review of Tac47's autoplug. I watched the video and noticed that once it's set up right, it'll run anything. The issue i have is when the gun is shooting low brass then high brass it obviously kicks the shells out farther implying that it's not bleeding the excess gas off correctly. Essentially i'm worried about rear trunion issues. The design looks good, i'm just concerned.

 

[Joeyidgaf]

I have converted 20 of them. I can do it in my sleep. I have used every stock, every forearm, every possible variation. I love this gun and if you can find one under 700, buy it!! The problem is that they just do not exist any more. I still have a few that I got for 600. it is easy to put another 600 in them. The main thing is to move the trigger group forward and that will cost you 100. I have been doing wood saiga's and they are the coolest. Good luck.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

When i first started looking for a gun (roughly 2-3 months ago) the saiga 12's were going for the same price as a remington 870. I believe they are trying to ban the saigas from entering the u.s. because you can use a drum mag with em or some junk which has doubled-trippled the price in these last few months. Alot of people are wondering why they would try to ban them now, when there are SO MANY in circulation, it doesnt really make sense.

 

[bullet]

I love to have one, but there's no way I would spend that much on one. Rather have a good black rifle in 308.