Saint Benitez Strikes Down Calif. Magazine Ban in Duncan v. Bonta -- Again (9-22-23)

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  • JAL

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    So, if Judges willfully ignore and functionally violate a SCOTUS precedent, does SCOTUS have any power to remove those Judges? If not, there certainly needs to be some authority to do so, I would think.
    They're appointed to the bench for life per the Constitution. Nominated by POTUS and confirmed by Senate, the same as his cabinet officials. The exception is POTUS cannot fire them (i.e. accept their resignation). Most retire in very advanced years. Most of the deaths from old age occur on SCOTUS, not on the Appellate or District Courts. Only three ways to be rid of them:
    1. Death,
    2. Voluntary Retirement, or
    3. Impeachment & Conviction by House and Senate.
    The historical basis for lifetime appointments were the judges appointed by the Crown (reigning monarch) during the Colonial Era. The Crown could remove and replace a judge at will. King George III did so when he didn't like one that wasn't sufficiently tyrannical and doing his bidding. It was to create an independent bench and bar POTUS or Congress from being able to exert political leverage over them. Not all judges appointed by a given president turn out to be ones that do their bidding. That is why one specific political party is screeching about requiring judicial appointment expirations (i.e. terms only a few years vs lifetime) and/or appointment reaffirmations every few years. They're pissed off because they cannot control the judges and their decisions to force them to do their bidding. Only a handful of Federal Judges have been impeached and convicted, invariably for corruption. Many judges that were facing certain impeachment by the House, or were impeached but not yet tried by the Senate, and were facing certain conviction there, resigned. That number isn't very large, though. Civics Lesson for the week. ;)
     
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    jwamplerusa

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    They're appointed to the bench for life per the Constitution. Nominated by POTUS and confirmed by Senate, the same as his cabinet officials. The exception is POTUS cannot fire them (i.e. accept their resignation). Most retire in very advanced years. Most of the deaths from old age occur on SCOTUS, not on the Appellate or District Courts. Only three ways to be rid of them:
    1. Death,
    2. Voluntary Retirement, or
    3. Impeachment & Conviction by House and Senate.
    The historical basis for lifetime appointments were the judges appointed by the Crown (reigning monarch) during the Colonial Era. The Crown could remove and replace a judge at will. King George III did so when he didn't like one that wasn't sufficiently tyrannical and doing his bidding. It was to create an independent bench and bar POTUS or Congress from being able to exert political leverage over them. Not all judges appointed by a given president turn out to be ones that do their bidding. That is why one specific political party is screeching about requiring judicial appointment expirations (i.e. terms only a few years vs lifetime) and/or appointment reaffirmations every few years. They're pissed off because they cannot control the judges and their decisions to force them to do their bidding. Civics Lesson for the week. ;)
    I understand the imperative Regarding separation of the 3 branches.

    My concern is with management within the judiciary. If the SCOTUS is the highest judicial power within the judicial branch I would expect them to have authority over the lower court judges. What is to be done with roge Judges which ignore precedent?

    If you cannot discipline an employee, then they don't work for you, you work for them.

    Article III section I doesn't really answer my quotation, or tell me Impeachment is the method of removal.

    "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."

    I did a quick check of Commentaries on the Constitution, and did not see where management of the judiciary was addressed for Judges.

    I am ignorant in this area, so feel free to educate me.
     

    Quiet Observer

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    I understand the imperative Regarding separation of the 3 branches.

    My concern is with management within the judiciary. If the SCOTUS is the highest judicial power within the judicial branch I would expect them to have authority over the lower court judges. What is to be done with roge Judges which ignore precedent?

    If you cannot discipline an employee, then they don't work for you, you work for them.

    Article III section I doesn't really answer my quotation, or tell me Impeachment is the method of removal.

    "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."

    I did a quick check of Commentaries on the Constitution, and did not see where management of the judiciary was addressed for Judges.

    I am ignorant in this area, so feel free to educate me.
    The term lengths for president and members of Congress are designated in the Constitution. As you quote, there is no such limitation for justices. It seems that if the Founding Fathers wanted one, they would have put it in the Constitution. It would take a Constitutional amendment just as happened when the 22nd Amendment limited the President to 2 terms.
     
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    loudgroove

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    I understand the imperative Regarding separation of the 3 branches.

    My concern is with management within the judiciary. If the SCOTUS is the highest judicial power within the judicial branch I would expect them to have authority over the lower court judges. What is to be done with roge Judges which ignore precedent?

    If you cannot discipline an employee, then they don't work for you, you work for them.

    Article III section I doesn't really answer my quotation, or tell me Impeachment is the method of removal.

    "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."

    I did a quick check of Commentaries on the Constitution, and did not see where management of the judiciary was addressed for Judges.

    I am ignorant in this area, so feel free to educate me.
    What I remember from Civics class 30 years ago is. Judges are to hold themselves at the highest standards. Even ruling by another judge's decision that is similar to their case. The Supreme court is the highest court in the country. But lack the power to remove a judge. They only make discissions, not investigative work or to prosecute. Congress is the only branch that has the power to remove a judge. In my opinion is if the Supreme court gets too many cases that is similar to what they have already ruled, They can order the lower court to hear it again or refer a judge to Congress for impeachment.
     

    JAL

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    What I remember from Civics class 30 years ago is. Judges are to hold themselves at the highest standards. Even ruling by another judge's decision that is similar to their case. The Supreme court is the highest court in the country. But lack the power to remove a judge. They only make discissions, not investigative work or to prosecute. Congress is the only branch that has the power to remove a judge. In my opinion is if the Supreme court gets too many cases that is similar to what they have already ruled, They can order the lower court to hear it again or refer a judge to Congress for impeachment.
    Federal courts have done that in the past . . . made referrals to Congress for impeachment action. The operative language on judges in the Constitution is "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour". That means -- in the language of the 1780's -- that there is no limit on how long their appointment runs, i.e. it's lifetime. However if there is "bad Behaviour", that could result in removal from the bench. As stated above, the mechanism in Congress to act on a judge to remove one is the impeachment process. That process has been used and, if I counted them correctly, has resulted in seven Senate convictions that removed Federal Judges, with only one of them a SCOTUS Justice in the early 1800's. Numerous other judges either resigned in the face of almost certain removal, or were acquitted by the Senate not attaining the necessary votes to convict. Most of the latter served on the bench until death or retirement.
     
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    JAL

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    FWIW, one of the notable impeachment removal attempts was against William O. Douglas, an FDR appointee, brought into the House in 1970 by its Minority Leader (1965-1973), Gerald Ford, when he was a Congressman. (Ford resigned his seat in Dec 1973 to become VP when Spiro Agnew resigned after being legitimately indicted for corruption in Maryland from when he was governor; never was connected to the Watergate break-in. VP for about 8 months until Nixon resigned in Aug 1974.) There was considerable political wrangling over SCOTUS appointments from 1968 when LBJ announced he was not running for reelection (he was eligible to), making him a "lame duck", and into the first term of the Nixon administration. It generated turmoil within the court itself among several of its justices.

    Sordid political history lesson for the week. ;)

    I anticipate an impeachment of at least Clarence Thomas if the Democrats gain control of the House (similar attempts for similar reasons in the past have never succeeded, either failing in the House, or failing in the Senate). They'll also go after all three of Trump's appointees hammer and tongs. I won't get into the details here regarding the Douglas impeachment attempt. It's an historical footnote about impeachment of SCOTUS justices.

    I return you now to our regularly scheduled thread regarding Saint Benitez and his second ("remake") injunction regarding California's magazine ban.
     
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    loudgroove

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    FWIW, one of the notable impeachment removal attempts was against William O. Douglas, an FDR appointee, brought into the House in 1970 by its minority leader, Gerald Ford, when he was a Congressman. There was considerable political wrangling over SCOTUS appointments from 1968 when LBJ announced he was not running for reelection (he was eligible to), making him a "lame duck", and into the first term of the Nixon administration. It generated turmoil within the court itself among several of its justices.

    I anticipate an impeachment of at least Clarence Thomas if the Democrats gain control of the House (similar attempts for similar reasons in the past have never succeeded, either failing in the House, or failing in the Senate). They'll also go after all three of Trump's appointees hammer and tongs. I won't get into the details here regarding the Douglas impeachment attempt. It's an historical footnote about impeachment of SCOTUS justices.
    lol, the other day I shut a Libtard down that was crying about the Biden impeachment. I simply said that people are treating your president just like you treated theirs. It's your turn to deal with it. lol

    So I say let them try to impeach Thomas. I'm sure if they pull his pants down in front of the country, the same can be done to the liberal justices. Even Roberts!!!!
     

    jwamplerusa

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    FWIW, one of the notable impeachment removal attempts was against William O. Douglas, an FDR appointee, brought into the House in 1970 by its Minority Leader (1965-1973), Gerald Ford, when he was a Congressman. (Ford resigned his seat in Dec 1973 to become VP when Spiro Agnew resigned after being legitimately indicted for corruption in Maryland from when he was governor; never was connected to the Watergate break-in. VP for about 8 months until Nixon resigned in Aug 1974.) There was considerable political wrangling over SCOTUS appointments from 1968 when LBJ announced he was not running for reelection (he was eligible to), making him a "lame duck", and into the first term of the Nixon administration. It generated turmoil within the court itself among several of its justices.

    Sordid political history lesson for the week. ;)

    I anticipate an impeachment of at least Clarence Thomas if the Democrats gain control of the House (similar attempts for similar reasons in the past have never succeeded, either failing in the House, or failing in the Senate). They'll also go after all three of Trump's appointees hammer and tongs. I won't get into the details here regarding the Douglas impeachment attempt. It's an historical footnote about impeachment of SCOTUS justices.

    I return you now to our regularly scheduled thread regarding Saint Benitez and his second ("remake") injunction regarding California's magazine ban.
    @JAL

    Thank you to you and others. I can learn. I really had not thought much about how the Federal Courts are managed and was viewing the structure much more in a business than a governance point of view. From a governance point the structure and means of removal make sense and is consistent with what I read in Commentaries on the Constitution.

    The decades of permitting the Left to load the Appellate benches is going to be the gift which keeps on giving to the Communists. Especially with no realistic mechanism, or the will, to remove them from the Right.

    Just another nail in the coffin.
     

    Alamo

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    Especially with no realistic mechanism, or the will, to remove them from the Right.
    We had a mechanism and a will, they were called control of the Senate and Trump+Turtle. We gained a lot of yardage, and you would not be seeing this thread or any of the other pro2A court decisions without them. Even the 9th has tacked a bit rightward, against it's masters' wills. They keep having to throw together lefty-stacked en banc re-do's to override the mini-banc 2A decisions.

    People bitch about the Pistol Brace rule under Trump, but overall he did a super job with the SCOTUS and the federal judiciary, and even the brace rule is turning into a club to beat the ATF and the DOJ with.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Southern District of California holds California's AWB unconstitutional:

    CA AWB is DOA:

     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Southern District of California holds California's AWB unconstitutional:

    CA AWB is DOA:


    Remember the California market is ENORMOUS and the pent up demand will be a tidal wave.

    No panic, just something to keep up on the radar.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Now repeal Gov Hairgel's unconstitutional tax.

    Extra tax on anything covered by the constitution=poll tax. Pay to vote? Poll tax. Pay for the right to speak, poll tax. Sin tax on guns and ammo and booze, poll tax. (2nd and 21st)
     
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    Kirk Freeman

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    Now repeal Gov Hairgel's unconstitutional tax.

    Extra tax on anything covered by the constitution=poll tax. Pay to vote? Poll tax. Pay for the right to speak, poll tax. Sin tax on guns and ammo and booze, poll tax. (2nd and 21st)
    Not happening. The Assembly just passed it, what makes you think they would turn around and repeal it?


    Courts may vacate, but will take time. Roll your own for now, CA.
     
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