SC Governor calls for removal of confederate flag on state grounds

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  • miguel

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    Winners fly the flag that they want. And who started hostilities between English Colonists/Americans and Native Americans? Didn't Native Americans think they were tricking white settlers (when those settlers paid for land) because Native Americans had no concept of land ownership? They seemed to get pretty upset when that concept was explained to them at the end of a barrel.

    Agreed, there's no doubt the winners make the rules and pick a flag. We can all find a photo or historical record of one piece of cloth going up and another coming down. Sometimes more peacefully than others.

    I don't know who started the Spanish/Portugese/French/Dutch/English vs. Native Americans...could be argued ad infinitum, I would believe. I could dedicate the rest of my life to trying to figure it out and would probably always have reasonable doubt due to the scope and number of "violations" to be studied and reflected upon. I wasn't there and can't say for sure.

    The point I hope to make, and attempted to make albeit rather abruptly and with insufficient sincerity, was that one guy with a flag can't speak for or represent everyone with the same flag or the flag itself. To me, and maybe I'm narrow minded or ignorant, it is a similar argument to one made by anti-gunners...one person did something horrible, terrible and violent with a gun, so get rid of the guns. After all, a gun is a weapon, a tool that was invented to, at least initially, kill or incapacitate someone. I can't imagine the first guy with a gun thought, "Damn, gonna run this in production class next week..." he wanted to gain an advantage.

    Just like every person who listens to hip hop isn't a drug dealer or every person who wants immigrants to file paperwork isn't a xenophobe. If someone shoots up a mall later this year and has a Gadsden flag in his apartment, do we ban those? If someone gets busted for domestic abuse and has a Mexican flag sticker on his car, do we blame it on the flag?

    "This is all very different from the Confederate flag and you know it!" some will say. Maybe it is. I'm just tired of the hierarchy of the offended where Group A's suffering is counted as more offensive than Group B's suffering. It is Earth and people -- individuals and/or groups -- are being fist-****ed by other individuals and/or groups constantly.

    Personally, I think the **** responsible for the shooting in SC should be put on trial and if/when found guilty, should be publicly hung, with it broadcast on TV. No "he's insane" defense, "he'll reform / it's worse for him in jail than being dead" bull ****. Hang the ****er dead. I blame him, not his flag.
     

    Dosproduction

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    Its freedom of speech. I can hang a Nazi Flag in my yard if I wanted to. The stars and stripes has a long history of slavery and murder on its belt but I don't see people calling for its removal (give it time though). This makes me want to buy a stars and bars to hang in my yard. Anything the government says I cant have just makes me want it more.
     

    jamil

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    Little late, but I guess better late than never. Never understood why DOJ never ordered them to take it down.

    Now to get MS and GA back in line.
    I'd like to see them get rid of it but that's a decision that should be made by MS and GA.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    All flags associated with racism should be banned from government buildings...

    image.jpg1_zpshewu01tx.jpg
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    Already touched on this topic in the SC shooting thread, but I suppose it's a large enough deal to have enough discussion on it's own.

    Also, Mississippi next in line?

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

    The entire controversy on the flag right now is just opportunity. The Left, I assume, dislikes the flag... and they use this event and this killer's photos to create an argument to remove it.

    I think Nikki played the situation well... she didn't let it blow up, and she approached it just right. She didn't give them the satisfaction of painting the GOP as racist, and maintained people's free-speech to use the flag as they like.

    Remember - This existed:

    CIIyERJWsAA7-Qi.jpg:large
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that some college kids in Cali wanted to make sure the Stars and Stripes wasn't displayed so as not to offend anyone? I fly the Air Force flag to the left of the Stars and Stripes on days I have flags displayed. Since the Aeronautical Division of the US Army Signal Corps came around in 1907 Big Blue has sent a lot of people to the afterlife. (I'm not going anywhere in particular with this, just kind of rambling.) What ordinance from combat aircraft does to human beings is quite offensive, but hell will freeze over before I stop flying either flag. Does my Gadsden Flag scare people? Are people offended by it's display? Does my POW/MIA flag cause hippies to feel anxiety?

    I'm not a government, I'm just a guy with some flags. I wouldn't fly the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, to the left of the Stars and Stripes or otherwise. What if I flew a Jolly Roger? I have no problem with the Jolly Roger, but what if people fear pirates? What if they think looting and pillaging will ensue?

    Government: Last time I checked there is that "we the people" and "consent of the governed" thing. If the people of SC want the flag to come down, it should. If not, that is their decision.
     

    OkieGirl

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    Ms. Haley is the states first "non-white" governor? I watched the video...am I missing something? It's as much of a stretch as calling George Zimmerman a white-Hispanic and trying to pass him off as a law enforcement officer. Remind me again how many states have a flag other than the American Flag that flies at their state house? Are we banning them all or just the ones that offend someone? And since we are talking about "non-whites" offended by flags...that would make me Native American. Which flag represents my people or better yet...which flag DOESN"T represent a people that actively participated in the mass slaughter of American Indians? And yes, that includes the state flag of Indiana.

    Can we get back to what really happened there now? Or do we want to be distracted by shiny flags a little longer?
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Ms. Haley is the states first "non-white" governor?

    Correct.

    which flag DOESN"T represent a people that actively participated in the mass slaughter of American Indians? And yes, that includes the state flag of Indiana.

    The Cornerstone of the United States of America is not white supremacy. The Cornerstone of the Confederacy is white supremacy.

    Celebrating white supremacy is offensive and gives permission to lunatics with racist conspiracy theories to commit murder.

    What if I flew a Jolly Roger? I have no problem with the Jolly Roger, but what if people fear pirates? What if they think looting and pillaging will ensue?

    You are not the government. The government of South Carolina is a government and that government should not be celebrating white supremacy.
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    You are not the government. The government of South Carolina is a government and that government should not be celebrating white supremacy.

    You're really narrowing down the flag into one neatly wrapped package of racism.

    Can't help but argue that isn't all it's about. Not denying the existence of "racial controversy" with it... but there is more to it.
     

    Trigger Time

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    Al I know is that for the last 7 years the people who have been the loudest and done the least have ****ed this country up. I'll be glad once they shut the hell up in a year or so when a republican gets in the White House. Can I even say White House anymore?
     

    OkieGirl

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    The Cornerstone of the United States of America is not white supremacy. The Cornerstone of the Confederacy is white supremacy.
    Celebrating white supremacy is offensive and gives permission to lunatics with racist conspiracy theories to commit murder.
    You are not the government. The government of South Carolina is a government and that government should not be celebrating white supremacy.

    This is true, and should have been addressed quite a long time ago. My frustration is that it is a reactionary act and not a pure, true decision made by thoughtful consideration. In other words, they are doing this NOW because of a murderous act in a place of worship and not because they are working (without a triggering event) to align their states symbolic treasures with their true beliefs on the value of the lives of their citizens.

    ***Edit: a flag can't give permission to anyone to do anything. It's an inanimate object. Tolerance of evil by lack of enforcement of laws is what allows lunatics to get away with murder.
     
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    MisterChester

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    Finally a sensible move.
    Kind of a long story but it makes a point.
    Just after Hurricane Katrina went through the family doctors office I was working for went down to southern Mississippi; Long Beach actually. I had a 'swamp person' tell me, after finding out where we were from, " the war is finally over" and actually meant it.
    That was an eye opener!

    Drugs. Not even once.
     

    MisterChester

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    This is true, and should have been addressed quite a long time ago. My frustration is that it is a reactionary act and not a pure, true decision made by thoughtful consideration. In other words, they are doing this NOW because of a murderous act in a place of worship and not because they are working (without a triggering event) to align their states symbolic treasures with their true beliefs on the value of the lives of their citizens.

    The idea of removing it has been boiling for a while. The flag was initially put on their Capitol in the 1960s (not anytime between then and the end of the civil war mind you) because they thought desegregation = the end of the world. Then in 2000 they moved it to where it is now. A lot of people thought this was not a good compromise. I think this shooting might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
     

    Lee11b

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    Al I know is that for the last 7 years the people who have been the loudest and done the least have ****ed this country up. I'll be glad once they shut the hell up in a year or so when a republican gets in the White House. Can I even say White House anymore?

    NO you can't, Trigger Time. It's the Rainbow House of the oppressed, welfare loving, "Climate Changing", anti-gun, socialist leaning.... oh wait it's the Transparency House.....yeah that's it!!!!
     
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