Shooting death of a security guard at the hands of police

[2A_Tom]

Glad someone else caught that, I thought I might be hearing things.

 

[thunderchicken]

They said that even OTHER officers were yelling at the officer who shot.

Understood that..I also said I take it with a grain of salt as perspectives vary. Always at least two sides to the story with reality being somewhere in the middle. Not saying the officer who shot didn't screw up, that's entirety possible..but likely not the only factor.

 

[thunderchicken]

Since I feel it is relevant in this case, I will also say this. Anytime you put yourself in the middle of a bad situation, you assume some risk that something bad may happen to you...even if you do everything right. IF so many officers knew he was a security guard, I have to wonder why at least one hadn't already taken over so the security guard could have stood down. Seems odd to me that they had already identified who he was but none of them were on top of the bad guy putting cuffs on him. Just makes me wonder where people were positioned and IF the officer who shot really ran out guns a blazin. Again we don't have all the facts so more speculation.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Since I feel it is relevant in this case, I will also say this. Anytime you put yourself in the middle of a bad situation, you assume some risk that something bad may happen to you...even if you do everything right. IF so many officers knew he was a security guard, I have to wonder why at least one hadn't already taken over so the security guard could have stood down. Seems odd to me that they had already identified who he was but none of them were on top of the bad guy putting cuffs on him. Just makes me wonder where people were positioned and IF the officer who shot really ran out guns a blazin. Again we don't have all the facts so more speculation.

This I agree with.

 

[Knight Rider]

This forum gets more confusing with each post. What do you carry? Open or concealed? Women carrying guns. Molon Labe. Don’t tread on me.

Just don’t show a weapon if an officer is near or you may get shot and it will somehow be your fault. We give police such awesome authority but so much less responsibility for their actions than an untrained civilian. Do we have the right to keep and bear or don’t we?

We ohh and ahh over who’s is biggest and baddest. We go on and on about the good guy with a gun stopping the bad guy with a gun. Well it would appear the good guy stopped the bad guy and then got himself shot by the protect and serve guy. Keep bragging about what you got and what you carry, just keep it in put away unless you in your own home. Unless someone comes through your door in the wee hours to take it from you. You get dead for that too.

 

[2A_Tom]

I just heard that there were two departments on scene when the two Midlothian cars arrived. The bouncer was wearing a bulet proof vest that said SECURITY. people told the arriving police that he was security. The officer shot him 1 time and followed up with 4 more.

I am sure now that it was 100% the security guards fault.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Hard to Monday morning quarterback this without knowing all the facts.

We don't know what info was relayed to the responding officers by dispatch.

We don't know the level of training the officers have.

Things we do know are the environment. Illinois is a crap state, run by liberal idiots, so there is a good chance the department isn't up to the standards we see here in Indiana.

We know that though the guard did a brave and selfless thing stopping the bad guy, he did it incorrectly. You NEVER want to be the guy holding the gun on a civilian when the cops show up... All they know is who the threat is at the time they arrive, and there you are, standing there pointing a gun at what looks to be a helpless victim.

I only hope like hell IL has the felony murder rule so the dirtbag pays for the cops mistake. Sure bet they won't. I'm kinda thinking they jumped the gun a bit, even though I also understand why they would, and why they would be excused for it.

Still, it's a good thing the summer riot season is over.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Hard to Monday morning quarterback this without knowing all the facts.

We don't know what info was relayed to the responding officers by dispatch.

We don't know the level of training the officers have.

Things we do know are the environment. Illinois is a crap state, run by liberal idiots, so there is a good chance the department isn't up to the standards we see here in Indiana.

We know that though the guard did a brave and selfless thing stopping the bad guy, he did it incorrectly. You NEVER want to be the guy holding the gun on a civilian when the cops show up... All they know is who the threat is at the time they arrive, and there you are, standing there pointing a gun at what looks to be a helpless victim.

I only hope like hell IL has the felony murder rule so the dirtbag pays for the cops mistake. Sure bet they won't. I'm kinda thinking they jumped the gun a bit, even though I also understand why they would, and why they would be excused for it.

Still, it's a good thing the summer riot season is over.

How do we know the the security officer "did it incorrectly?" We know at least one of the bad guys had a gun. Are we going to assume the others didn't? If the guy was cuffed, what sense does it make to take your gun off of a potentially armed person? We also don't know if the security guard was aware officers had arrived, nor at what distance he was engaged... I can tell you this though, you better be a damn good shot to shoot a gun in such close proximity to another person.

 

[thunderchicken]

This forum gets more confusing with each post. What do you carry? Open or concealed? Women carrying guns. Molon Labe. Don’t tread on me.

Just don’t show a weapon if an officer is near or you may get shot and it will somehow be your fault. We give police such awesome authority but so much less responsibility for their actions than an untrained civilian. Do we have the right to keep and bear or don’t we?

We ohh and ahh over who’s is biggest and baddest. We go on and on about the good guy with a gun stopping the bad guy with a gun. Well it would appear the good guy stopped the bad guy and then got himself shot by the protect and serve guy. Keep bragging about what you got and what you carry, just keep it in put away unless you in your own home. Unless someone comes through your door in the wee hours to take it from you. You get dead for that too.

Was purple implied? Without grape print, seems you may be overreacting.
Carry however you wish
You can have your gun out when police arrive but you best be quick to identify yourself and be ready to drop the weapon. They have to respond to whoever is the perceived threat. I'm not making any excuses for the officer. When I made my statements that his own actions may have contributed to his being killed its based on he was the guy on top of another person holding him down with a gun pointed in his direction. I also said IF in fact other officers trued to identify him as a security guard prior to being shot then why hadn't they secured the bad guy? Why would a security guard still be holding the man down.
I would bet almost any defensive tactics trainer would tell you in such an instance to immediately identify yourself and holster the weapon or be ready to drop it upon command. And don't even accidentally point that gun toward an officer as you may be shot. I am not saying it was the good guys fault. Just that even if he did everything right he assumed some risks and his actions MAYhave been contributing factors.

 

[thunderchicken]

I just heard that there were two departments on scene when the two Midlothian cars arrived. The bouncer was wearing a bulet proof vest that said SECURITY. people told the arriving police that he was security. The officer shot him 1 time and followed up with 4 more.

I am sure now that it was 100% the security guards fault.

First if two departments had already arrived, and determined the good guy was security why wasn't the bad guy in their custody?
If the good guy was in fact wearing a vest that said security and he was shot once followed by 4 more rounds, then yes that certainly smells fishy and adds to the suspicion of wrong doing/poor judgement by the officer.

I never said it was 100% the good guys fault. Read what I said again...may have contributed.

 

[Ark]

Uniformed security guard with other people, including other officers, shouting that he was security. Doesn't look good for the officer at all. If a CCW'er made that mistake he would be instantly crucified by the entire community, "you're responsible for every round you fire", etc etc. I see no reason not to hold a police officer to the same standard, if not a higher one. The currently available facts all point to a massive ****up on his part. No uniformed, armed security guard should have to worry about being shot for holding a gun while performing his duties. As far as I'm concerned this is as dumb as an officer rolling up to an active scene and immediately shooting another police officer because "well, he had a gun". I am expected to have better judgement than that as an armed citizen, and I am inclined to cut NO slack to a police officer who cannot even manage the degree of good judgement expected of me, average douchebag.

 

[thunderchicken]

Uniformed security guard with other people, including other officers, shouting that he was security. Doesn't look good for the officer at all. If a CCW'er made that mistake he would be instantly crucified by the entire community, "you're responsible for every round you fire", etc etc. I see no reason not to hold a police officer to the same standard, if not a higher one. The currently available facts all point to a massive ****up on his part. No uniformed, armed security guard should have to worry about being shot for holding a gun while performing his duties. As far as I'm concerned this is as dumb as an officer rolling up to an active scene and immediately shooting another police officer because "well, he had a gun". I am expected to have better judgement than that as an armed citizen, and I am inclined to cut NO slack to a police officer who cannot even manage the degree of good judgement expected of me, average douchebag.

If in fact he was in a vest with security on it then yes, I would tend to agree with you. And the more info that comes out seems to be trending toward an officer who may have stepped on his crank and zipped it in his zipper all at once. If info coming out is factual then I would agree the officer should suffer the consequences. Just like you or me the officer is responsible for where his bullets go and he has to own his actions.

 

[KellyinAvon]

In Cook County recently a Police Officer was convicted of murder and a crap-ton of pile on charges for doing a mag-dump on a dangerous, drugged out of his mind individual armed with a knife. Compare and contrast.

 

[2A_Tom]

First if two departments had already arrived, and determined the good guy was security why wasn't the bad guy in their custody?
If the good guy was in fact wearing a vest that said security and he was shot once followed by 4 more rounds, then yes that certainly smells fishy and adds to the suspicion of wrong doing/poor judgement by the officer.

I never said it was 100% the good guys fault. Read what I said again...may have contributed.

That was the 9 o'clock news on WGN. I have no explanation beyond that.

 

[lonehoosier]

Black security guard Jemel Roberson was given 'multiple verbal commands' to drop his weapon before he was killed by white cop - NY Daily News

 

[2A_Tom]

If that is true, I would believe that the security guard had tunnel vision or believed that they were talking to another perpetrator.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I wish the cops had body cams... Stops the bad cops, protects the good ones from all the false racism claims. A lot of cops don't like them, but I see it as collecting evidence everywhere you go... Do your job right, no worries.

 

[thunderchicken]

Black security guard Jemel Roberson was given 'multiple verbal commands' to drop his weapon before he was killed by white cop - NY Daily News

This seems to counter previous statement that he was wearing a vest that said security on it. Apparently he was only wearing a hat that said security. Based on this article, he was given commands to drop the weapon and get on the ground. In a chaotic scene as this must have been, its possible that he wasn't clear who the commands were directed at. Or he may have had tunnel vision and wasn't aware of what was going on around him, hard to say.
Tunnel vision is easy to get caught up in especially under stress. Only way I know to combat tunnel vision is training and even then it is easy to lose fine motor skills and not get stuck in tunnel vision under stress.
It is sad that a good guy with a gun whose actions may have saved others lives was killed.

I think it just goes to show that if you choose to respond in such a manner that even if you have done everything right, it is possible that you may be perceived as a threat to responding officers.

 

[lonehoosier]

The Latest: 2nd guard didn't hear officer say to drop gun


https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/the-latest-nd-guard-didn-t-hear-officer-say-to/article_93cac737-6872-5c68-8037-82e6a116e2b8.html?mode=nowapp

“Myrickes says he had just been shot in the shoulder by a gunman inside Manny's Blue Room in Robbins early Sunday when he saw the officer point his gun at the 26-year-old Roberson. He says he could hear people yelling that Roberson was a security guard. The officer then fired multiple shots.”