Shotguns, Bears and handguns oh my.

[warren5421]

I lived in NY around Saratoga Springs as Uncle sent me there for Nuclear Power training. Had an S&W 357 given to me during bear season. A guy brought a small black bear in for processing as I was buying round steak to cook out. He had a pistol on his belt that I said was nice looking, he took it of his belt and gave to me saying “It might look good but it is a piece of crap". He shot the bear once with a .30-30 not stopping it. He pulled his pistol and shot it 6 times and his hunting partner shot it once with a .30-06. The bear knocked the guy down as it dropped dead. That is why you could not give me a pistol for a bear. Proven fact most marksmen under stress will screw it up. You will miss more than you hit till you have had to react to several animals coming to kill you. The military can train you but no citizen training will ever train the right reaction.

 

[Thor]

Guide Gun in .45-70...there are reasons guides carry them and it is named that.

That being said, every bear I've killed was with a .30-06. I was weapon limited at the time but the -06 works fine with the right bullets. I didn't have to face one at close range, if I did I'd rather have had the .45-70.

 

[two70]

As shotguns go, or anything else, I think I would want something quick handling. Animals, even large ones, are often encountered by surprise. It's bad enough if you just surprise them, but if they surprise you, it's usually because they wanted to surprise you.

Yes, being able to deploy your weapon of choice quickly has proven to be more important than having the most powerful weapon when it comes to bear. IMO, unless you plan on keeping the Shockwave in hand, which I doubt will be the case for long, it is likely going to be too slow to deploy. Worse, once a bear gets in close, the length of the Shockwave would make it hard to use effectively.

 

[flightsimmer]

Yes, being able to deploy your weapon of choice quickly has proven to be more important than having the most powerful weapon when it comes to bear. IMO, unless you plan on keeping the Shockwave in hand, which I doubt will be the case for long, it is likely going to be too slow to deploy. Worse, once a bear gets in close, the length of the Shockwave would make it hard to use effectively.

I wonder how those of our troops who are issued shotguns for close quarters use choose to carry and deploy them?
Anyone know? I would guess they would load 00 buck.

 

[wildcatfan.62]

On a black bear hunt in Idaho, the guides we had carried 1911's in .45. Both said they had used them to dispatch a wounded bear at some point. One guide did have a Ruger Redhawk in .44 mag in his truck but he said he'd never actually had to use it.

Three guys hunting with us had pistols as backups.
One had a .45 Sig that he could use to scare a bear as he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it. We joked with him about 6-7 rounds for the bear and one for you if it comes down to it.

Second guy had maybe a Judge in .410/.45 LC. He had two rounds of .410 slugs and the rest in .45 LC. He didn't shoot it in camp so no idea if it was for looks or if he could use it.

The last one had a .327 Fed. If he needed it the bear would have been in trouble -much better shot.

 

[TheJoker]

According to Colt marketing, this is what I need:

 

[rhslover]

The Glock 20, 10mm is becoming popular among Alaskan guides. 15 rounds of hot 10mm is something to be reckoned with. Lightweight band reliable.

 

[DadSmith]

Definitely could go with a 10mm and some 200gr hard cast bullets.

 

[DadSmith]

According to Colt marketing, this is what I need:

Expert shot placement and it's possible

 

[flightsimmer]

I wonder how those of our troops who are issued shotguns for close quarters use choose to carry and deploy them?
Anyone know? I would guess they would load 00 buck.

Aren't there any former military service members who carried shotguns in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan on this list? How did you use them?

 

[Tactically Fat]

So many people overthink this.

Making noise and tromping around is enough for the overwhelming majority of regular day hikers to not have to worry about bear encounters.

For the super small amount of others, a high quality actual bear spray and the knowledge of when & how to use it take care of the overwhelming majority of those.

And for the almost zero odds of needing a lethal option - face it. MOST black bears are essentially good ol' boy sized. 9mm is good for good ol' boys, it's good enough for black bears IF THE SHOOTER CAN SHOOT.

I've lost track of how many times I've said the following, too: I used to have a friend who was stationed on Kodiak Island, AK, courtesy of the USCG. He bought himself a S&W 686 as a hiking gun. I asked him why not something in .44 Mag? He said that most folks out there hike with a .357. On Kodiak Island. Perhaps you've heard of that certain sub-species of brown bear they have there?

In all of this, we also must look at the situation / scenario through the lens of context.

Hiking around for exercise and enjoyment is a whole other ballgame than stalking around all quiet-like in pursuit of quarry. Hunting something, bear or not, will probably have a different need for different defensive tools.

 

[Thor]

Looking at something in context is easy in retrospect. Being prepared for all contingencies is another thing.

Go as you will.

 

[DadSmith]

So many people overthink this.

Making noise and tromping around is enough for the overwhelming majority of regular day hikers to not have to worry about bear encounters.

For the super small amount of others, a high quality actual bear spray and the knowledge of when & how to use it take care of the overwhelming majority of those.

And for the almost zero odds of needing a lethal option - face it. MOST black bears are essentially good ol' boy sized. 9mm is good for good ol' boys, it's good enough for black bears IF THE SHOOTER CAN SHOOT.

I've lost track of how many times I've said the following, too: I used to have a friend who was stationed on Kodiak Island, AK, courtesy of the USCG. He bought himself a S&W 686 as a hiking gun. I asked him why not something in .44 Mag? He said that most folks out there hike with a .357. On Kodiak Island. Perhaps you've heard of that certain sub-species of brown bear they have there?

In all of this, we also must look at the situation / scenario through the lens of context.

Hiking around for exercise and enjoyment is a whole other ballgame than stalking around all quiet-like in pursuit of quarry. Hunting something, bear or not, will probably have a different need for different defensive tools.

Yes sir Davy Crockett grinned a bear down, after he killed one at the age of three.

 

[Hookeye]

If you cant shoot a handgun well, dont carry one. Critters are tougher than people. Screw the 9mm for black bear.
And....because somebody else had a poor go w sidearm, that doesnt mean you or anybody else will.

Seen so many shoot like crap w rifle, pistol and shotgun....basing effectiveness on other peoples events is comical

Even pistolero Bambi slayers, many of them are a pow and then look to see what happens. Are not practiced in delivering quickly repeated shots, esp on movers.

IMHO its not hard, but you gotta learn how to do it.

 

[Hookeye]

Ive killed a few deer w .44 mag and they werent all that impressed. No frickin way would I go with something of less power that could chomp on me.

FWIW i dont think the .44 mag to be all that big and bad. But it can be had in platform sizes I like and is as much power as I want to mess with

Maybe a hot 10mm auto could work.

With arthritis and other, a .480, .454 or other just isnt gonna be used.

Hiking....329 PD or a reg 4" Smith of endurance package. I dont like the 300 gr bullets in em. While that may be the better choice I find a little lighter much more comfy. Hot 255 or 265s i can do quite a few.

 

[Hookeye]

Only .44 mag I have at the moment is a Ruger brass frame SBH. On those ( 5th one for me ) I get down lower on frame. The gun w 265s does not slide in the hand. It stays put. Hold right, thumb left.

I can shoot it pretty fast and well. But my hand takes a beating.

Smith N frame do same thing, but w fingergroove grips hand position is middle. Those frames too big for me to run DA one handed. So its two handed, and thumb left too.

I really need to find a 329 PD.
This dang thread gonna cost me some money LOL

 

[HCALREF]

I have owned a couple of pistol grip only shotguns, fired at least a 100 rds through them, and learned that they are almost impossible to learn to shoot with any kind of accurancy.

 

[DadSmith]

Ive killed a few deer w .44 mag and they werent all that impressed. No frickin way would I go with something of less power that could chomp on me.

FWIW i dont think the .44 mag to be all that big and bad. But it can be had in platform sizes I like and is as much power as I want to mess with

Maybe a hot 10mm auto could work.

With arthritis and other, a .480, .454 or other just isnt gonna be used.

Hiking....329 PD or a reg 4" Smith of endurance package. I dont like the 300 gr bullets in em. While that may be the better choice I find a little lighter much more comfy. Hot 255 or 265s i can do quite a few.

I used a 300gr XTP 44mag on a whitetail once it was overkill. I dropped to the 240gr XTP. The 300gr XTP hit the left shoulder went through and out the right shoulder. He dropped there no running away. I use a ground blind.

If you do go 44mag get one ported or have it ported by a professional. It makes a world of difference and you can get it back on target faster for a follow-up shoot.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I mean with a 18-1/2" barrel, no but stock with a sling, slung over your back in 12 or 20 gauge with slugs or 00 buck shot?
I would think that would be a good bear defense weapon and wouldn't require a licence to carry.


So, what do you guys and girls think?

I think needing a license or not would be state dependent. In IN you would need a ltch to carry one, at least if you weren't hunting. Under IC if it's under 26in or a short barreled shotgun/rifle or it doesn't have a shoulder stock it's considered a handgun and you need a ltch.

 

[Hookeye]

I wont port anything.
Have shot deer w 180, 200, 240 and 255gr.
They almost all go through.
Unless I crash a shoulder and spine.
It works (.44 mag) but aint magic.

Getting older, arthritis sucks.