should felons be able to purchase weapons??

[88GT]

New user casts thread necromancy.

I came across this forum while doing some research for a term paper. I was interested in the topic, and surprised by some of the posts. I'd like to share my story. I know some of you won't believe me, but whatever.

It's December of 1997. I, and some of my friends are celebrating our buddy's graduation from Parris Island. We're at our local bar, and we're all regulars. There's 8 of us, and we're drinking and snacking on some bar grub. We're just generally having a good time. Maybe an hour or so after we sat down, some loud mouth guy that's obviously already 3 sheets to the wind comes over, and starts causing problems. Yelling and telling us we're disturbing "his bar". I get up from the booth we're in, and try and talk with the guy. I explain to him why we're there, and we're all just exuberant to see our pal again, and proud of him for what he's accomplished. The guy seems to accept this and goes his own way.

About half an hour later, he comes back with the same schpiel. Someone had told a long time inside joke, and we all laughed pretty uproariously. He's up in our buddy's face, screaming at him, in his dress blues and all. At this point it's obvious the guy is looking for a fight. I'm not usually a fighter, but I get up and confront him. He takes the first swing, but he's so drunk it may as well have come in the mail. So, I proceed to toss him an ass whuppin'. In the process (according to the police report) I broke his nose, and knocked out one of his teeth.

The cops are called, and I figure there really shouldn't be any trouble. After all, I'm a regular here, the guy took the first swing, and I have 7 other witnesses to corroborate my story. The cops come, start asking questions, and making a report. It's at this time, the guy whips out his shield. Turns out I just beat the snot out of an off duty NYPD officer. With no hesitation whatsoever, I'm tackled, pepper sprayed, handcuffed and arrested. The charge is Assaulting a Police Officer. A Class B felony in NY, punishable by 5 - 25 years in prison, judge's discretion. The DA agrees to plead it down to Assault II, a Class D felony, 1 1/2 - 7 years. My lawyer tries for an Assault III plea, which is a class A Misdemeanor. The DA says no dice. So I'm convicted, and sentenced to one year in prison. I do my time, and get out. But now I'm a felon.

Fastforward 12 years. I'm 34. I'm married with a 9 year old son. I own a home, and work as a public safety auditor for a utility company. I go to school at nights, working on my degree in Engineering Technology. I coach my sons soccer team. I pay my taxes every year. Are you honestly going to tell me that justice was served in this case? I obey the law. Since that time my only interaction with law enforcement has been the occasional traffic ticket, and to file a police report for a cell phone stolen out of my car.

Do I sound like a threat to society? But yet, I'm a violent felon. IMHO, we're too quick to judge in any situation where the term "felon" is involved. Frankly, there are so many laws on the books in this country, and they vary from state to state, odds are every single person on this board has committed a felony. You just weren't caught, or charged.

I own no firearms, I am proscribed by both state and federal law, because I am a felon. But I have a home and a family to protect. How do you propose I do that? Have I not paid my debt? Why should I, as a free man, not retain the same rights as every one of you?

Just food for thought.

You are clearly still a danger to society and I wouldn't trust you with a firearm as far as I could throw you.

 

[Lucas156]

@NYfelon-well for starters you could get the hell out of New York. I wouldn't live there if I was paid to do so.

 

[Rookie]

Can anyone tell me what other right a felon HAS to give up?

 

[irishfan]

a felon could use the weapon for security reason or simple things such as hunting?

I don't believe anyone who has commited a violent felony of any sort should be allowed to legally carry a firearm. It is my opinion that you give up that right when you commit the felony.

 

[christman]

If your gonna let them free range back in society, then give them the same rights as everyone else...Otherwise don't let them out in the first place.

NYfelon is right. Too many laws on the books and too much variation. That "ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems pretty excusable to me nowadays.

Money or not, if they aren't fit to be released from prison into society, then don't let them out. Stop picking and choosing what rights they get to live with.

 

[Rookie]

Please show me anywhere that states you give up your rights

 

[nate1865]

Anybody who thinks our justice system is perfect needs to be involved in a case personally.

At the end of the day it comes down to who can throw the most weight around in the legal system. It is the sum total of connections, money, and influence.

The scales are by no mean perfectly balanced.

 

[Brian S.]

I don't think that anyone should be denied the right to arms because of a "felony". Just because someone committed a "felony" doesn't mean they are violent or will ever be. I'll even go so far as to say that just because someone may have done something "violent", that doesn't mean they will ever be willing to just shoot someone. There are different levels of violence and many reasons for it.

The whole concept is overly simplistic. I think that they should go through and decide who gets their rights taken away based upon more specific, objective criteria, as well as give judges more leeway to decide on a case-by-case basis exceptions.

 

[42769vette]

I don't believe anyone who has commited a violent felony of any sort should be allowed to legally carry a firearm. It is my opinion that you give up that right when you commit the felony.

so bassically you are saying he and his family deserve to be at the mercy of convicted felons who dont care if they break the law by posessing a firearm.

 

[Brian S.]

If your gonna let them free range back in society, then give them the same rights as everyone else...Otherwise don't let them out in the first place.

NYfelon is right. Too many laws on the books and too much variation. That "ignorance of the law is no excuse" seems pretty excusable to me nowadays.

Money or not, if they aren't fit to be released from prison into society, then don't let them out. Stop picking and choosing what rights they get to live with.

When you choose to harm people, it is justified to take certain rights away. Just as when you murder someone, it is moral to (when it is appropriate) to take away their right to live.

The problem is how we tend to implement this. Removing a fundamental right from all "felons" is not justified.

 

[T.Lex]

Are there any other "natural rights" that someone gives up by virtue of a single conviction?

On an unrelated note, NYfelon - have you investigated whether you can pursue some form of post-conviction relief or sentence reduction? Would cost some $$ to an attorney, but may be of some use.

 

[NYFelon]

I don't believe anyone who has commited a violent felony of any sort should be allowed to legally carry a firearm. It is my opinion that you give up that right when you commit the felony.

Out of curiosity, did you even read my post?

 

[NYFelon]

Are there any other "natural rights" that someone gives up by virtue of a single conviction?

On an unrelated note, NYfelon - have you investigated whether you can pursue some form of post-conviction relief or sentence reduction? Would cost some $$ to an attorney, but may be of some use.

T.Lex, indeed I have. NY has no expungement mechanism. However, they have what is called an application for relief of civil disability. Basically it's a legal rigamarole where you can apply for the full restoration of your civil rights, but they usually only remove any bars from the ability to hold a professional license. Having spoken with several attorneys, this being NY, the odds of ever having the right to own a firearm restored, short of a gubernatorial pardon, is about nil.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

So, I proceed to toss him an ass whuppin'.

With that sort of attitude, I'm *almost* fine with you being barred from gun ownership. Anyone who owns a firearm must understand that we are to be above retaliation. Stop the threat. Don't "whoop its ass". Even when I was a kid, I couldn't bring myself to actually punch someone, for fear of doing irreparable harm. Even though I was the big kid, I was socially awkward & kids would want to fight me (probably my sarcasm...). I'd simply grapple them & hold them until they capitulated.

That said, a right is a right. Either you need to be incarcerated because you're a threat to society, or you're a citizen with full rights.

 

[Gareth]

I don't think those who have been convicted of a non-violent felony should be disenfranchised for life. After serving their full sentence, their rights should be restored. But if they are convicted of a felony a second time - even a non-violent one - they should not be allowed to ever legally own firearms again.

 

[j. villarreal]

No.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A&feature=related[/ame]

Jason

 

[irishfan]

so bassically you are saying he and his family deserve to be at the mercy of convicted felons who dont care if they break the law by posessing a firearm.

No, I am saying he should not have been an idiot an commited a felony in the first place. Also, his wife or girlfriend can still have a firearm since you are talking about his family. That is unless they are a family of felons.

 

[NYFelon]

No, I am saying he should not have been an idiot an commited a felony in the first place. Also, his wife or girlfriend can still have a firearm since you are talking about his family. That is unless they are a family of felons.

Incorrect. My wife may not own firearms, as the house is mine. Therefore it falls under the legal doctrine of Constructive possession, this is how cars repossessions and foreclosures occur. The simple fact that the gun is in my house makes me it's possessor. The exception would be if the guns were locked in a safe, to which only she had a key, and I had no access thereto. Which pretty much defeats the purpose of owning a firearm for self defense in the first place.

And lol @ the "well he shouldn't have committed a felony in the first place." It was self-defense. The only reason I was even prosecuted is because the individual who was the original belligerent happened to be a policeman.

 

[ihateiraq]

nothing in life is black and white. i think when it comes to felons there should be a case by case review on their restrictions. if nyfelons scenario played out the way he described it, i would have reacted the same way. if homeboy didnt flash his badge(and maybe even if he did in this scenario) it shouldnt matter that he was a cop. if you try to fight me, i will try to wreck you. once you put yourself out there, you get what you get.

 

[sadclownwp]

I don't believe anyone who has commited a violent felony of any sort should be allowed to legally carry a firearm. It is my opinion that you give up that right when you commit the felony.

No, I am saying he should not have been an idiot an commited a felony in the first place. Also, his wife or girlfriend can still have a firearm since you are talking about his family. That is unless they are a family of felons.

I would give you so much rep right now if I could, but I am out for the day.