slide lightening

[VERT]

Thought this is the best place to post. Not really a competition question as much as a technical question. I recently picked up one of those new Smith & Wesson 1911s with lightning cuts. Now I know these are not USPSA or IDPA legal. My question is why are those deemed a competitive advantage? What does making the slide lighter do for the gun? Why would I want a slide to weigh less? Seems to me weight would help as far as recoil is concerned, but in contrast a lighter gun might come back on target faster. But I also assume the gun would need a heavier recoil spring.

 

[Coach]

They are legal in USPSA depending on the division. Jake will be along in a bit and can give you advice for a day and a half on how to set up a gun. He loves to talk slides, spring and such.

 

[rvb]

Generally less reciprocating mass = less recoil... Flatter shooting / less muzzle rise, esp when combined w. A lighter recoil spring

-rvb

 

[CB45]

but in contrast a lighter gun might come back on target faster. But I also assume the gun would need a heavier recoil spring.

Slide weight, recoil springs, and bullet weight work together to determine recoil characteristics.

Competition leagues set up rules to standardize the equipment in their respective division.

Its hard to tell someone what they are going to like. Best to try before you buy.

 

[VERT]

They are legal in USPSA depending on the division. Jake will be along in a bit and can give you advice for a day and a half on how to set up a gun. He loves to talk slides, spring and such.

Caught me there. Slide cuts are not legal for single stack.

 

[JJJ]

That's true they are not legal, but my understanding of the rule is that if your gun is a factory mass produced gun and available to the general public or duplicating said gun then you are good to go. I might be reading the rule exactly right.

 

[bigcraig]

That's true they are not legal, but my understanding of the rule is that if your gun is a factory mass produced gun and available to the general public or duplicating said gun then you are good to go. I might be reading the rule exactly right.

Only for Production division, Single stack has a strict criteria to follow.

 

[rvb]

That's true they are not legal, but my understanding of the rule is that if your gun is a factory mass produced gun and available to the general public or duplicating said gun then you are good to go. I might be reading the rule exactly right.

Apx D5.22


Prohibited modifications and features

Slide lightening, cuts, ports, or any milling deemed to provide a competitive advantage.

 

[rvb]

IDPA rules used to talk about prohibits "modifications" but what they mean is "features" ... They just aren't able to make the rules say what they mean... No idea what they currently say...

-rvb

 

[VERT]

Apx D5.22


Prohibited modifications and features

Slide lightening, cuts, ports, or any milling deemed to provide a competitive advantage.

There you go. I am not disagreeing with the rule. Just curious why lightening a slide provides a competitive advantage?

 

[rvb]

There you go. I am not disagreeing with the rule. Just curious why lightening a slide provides a competitive advantage?

See post #3

-rvb

 

[CB45]

Generally less reciprocating mass = less recoil... Flatter shooting / less muzzle rise, esp when combined w. A lighter recoil spring

-rvb

There you go. I am not disagreeing with the rule. Just curious why lightening a slide provides a competitive advantage?

This... basically its helps the shooter get back on the sights quicker.

 

[VERT]

Interesting. I have not shot this gun yet. It is one of those commander sized scadium framed guns. Very light, especially with the slide cuts. I am really excited about running it through the paces. I will probably even run it through a club match to try it out. I think that USPSA courses are a great way to test a carry gun.

 

[smith52]

Interesting. I have not shot this gun yet. It is one of those commander sized scadium framed guns. Very light, especially with the slide cuts. I am really excited about running it through the paces. I will probably even run it through a club match to try it out. I think that USPSA courses are a great way to test a carry gun.

For a USPSA match it's legal for Limited 10 division.

 

[Coach]

There you go. I am not disagreeing with the rule. Just curious why lightening a slide provides a competitive advantage?

Former Area 5 director Gary Stevens who was largely responsible for bringing about Single Stack division, has said that no slide lighting was prohibited in order to keep the guns and holsters and things more traditional or avoid the arms race. Rhino complained about it to him a several occasions, because Rhino has a gun with a lightened slide he would like to use. Gary agreed that it was not a real or serious competitive advantage but plenty of people think it is and they wanted to avoid the arms race. Single Stack nationals was also stuck on top of the existing Single Stack Classic, which was Gary's plan, and meant having to make the rules of the division very similar to what they had already been doing for years. In short the answer could be; "because we have always done it that way." Does not make it right but this is the background as I understand it.

 

[Coach]

Interesting. I have not shot this gun yet. It is one of those commander sized scadium framed guns. Very light, especially with the slide cuts. I am really excited about running it through the paces. I will probably even run it through a club match to try it out. I think that USPSA courses are a great way to test a carry gun.

You could always shoot it in a club match and play dumb if you get caught. Worst case scenario is you get bumped to Open.

 

[rvb]

slide lighting was prohibited in order to keep the guns and holsters and things more traditional or avoid the arms race. ... not a real or serious competitive advantage but plenty of people think it is .

I agree the benefit is very, very small.... Certainly if someone w.o a light slide got beat by another who had a lightened slide, they shouldn't be blaming the gear. But perceptions are what they are.

They also needed to differentiate the SS division from Lim10, otherwise it starts to look like Lim8. ... Kinda a reason I wasn't a huge fan of creating another division.... If someone wanted to be competitive w. their 1911 all thy had to do was buy some 10 round mags.... But again the perception was you had to have a wide body and light slide in .40 to play in that division...

Sign up in L10 w. Your carry gun and give it a work out!

-rvb

 

[Coach]

I agree the benefit is very, very small.... Certainly if someone w.o a light slide got beat by another who had a lightened slide, they shouldn't be blaming the gear. But perceptions are what they are.

They also needed to differentiate the SS division from Lim10, otherwise it starts to look like Lim8. ... Kinda a reason I wasn't a huge fan of creating another division.... If someone wanted to be competitive w. their 1911 all thy had to do was buy some 10 round mags.... But again the perception was you had to have a wide body and light slide in .40 to play in that division...

Sign up in L10 w. Your carry gun and give it a work out!

-rvb

Single stack should have allowed 10 round mags and been L10. I have seen comments printed by the former President of USPSA to that effect. But the 1911 single stack society did not agree.

Most shooters would not be able to successfully reap the benefit in a match. One bobbed reload, one brain fart would be huge compared to the benefit.

 

[VERT]

You could always shoot it in a club match and play dumb if you get caught. Worst case scenario is you get bumped to Open.

Truthfully guys I shoot with at my club don't really care. They know I either carry or just like to have fun with the guns I shoot. Getting bumped to open or shooting limited 10 is not a big deal to me. I am not a USPSA member, am not classified, and don't pose a threat as far as beating those at the top. I do like seeing my scores since it allows me to compare my performance to others in my squad. I get to see them shoot so it gives me some perspective. I like USPSA because it is an excuse to shoot and it stresses a persons gun handling.

I actually did better with my 9mm 1911 then my 45. The point penalty for minor did not catch up to me like I thought it would. Apparently I need to work on speed and less on accuracy. Somehow I doubt a 4" scandium framed gun without a magwell is going to speed things up.

 

[Coach]

Truthfully guys I shoot with at my club don't really care. They know I either carry or just like to have fun with the guns I shoot. Getting bumped to open or shooting limited 10 is not a big deal to me. I am not a USPSA member, am not classified, and don't pose a threat as far as beating those at the top. I do like seeing my scores since it allows me to compare my performance to others in my squad. I get to see them shoot so it gives me some perspective. I like USPSA because it is an excuse to shoot and it stresses a persons gun handling.

I actually did better with my 9mm 1911 then my 45. The point penalty for minor did not catch up to me like I thought it would. Apparently I need to work on speed and less on accuracy. Somehow I doubt a 4" scandium framed gun without a magwell is going to speed things up.

You seem to have the right approach. I think bottom line that SS and Production are the places for stock or nearly stock guns can compete in USPSA. That way the critics don't say you need a $3,000 gun to compete.