slide lightening

[VERT]

You seem to have the right approach. I think bottom line that SS and Production are the places for stock or nearly stock guns can compete in USPSA. That way the critics don't say you need a $3,000 gun to compete.

I agree. But have you ever noticed all the Wilson Combat, Les Baer and KnightHawk 1911s in holsters at a USPSA match.

 

[Coach]

I agree. But have you ever noticed all the Wilson Combat, Les Baer and KnightHawk 1911s in holsters at a USPSA match.

It is not right, but the fact is that the gun world is all about gear much more than skill. USPSA is not any different. Gear is much easier to acquire than skill.

 

[VERT]

It is not right, but the fact is that the gun world is all about gear much more than skill. USPSA is not any different. Gear is much easier to acquire than skill.

Oh I am not being critical. I love my Wilson Combat!

 

[sv40sw45]

Fools and their money are easily parted. Sorry Nate, just had to say IT!!!!!!

 

[VERT]

Fools and their money are easily parted. Sorry Nate, just had to say IT!!!!!!

Still love my Wilson Max! I saw all the women flocking to Gordon and figured it was because of his sexy gun. So I had to get one myself. Too bad it didn't work on Mrs.VERT

 

[rvb]

Single stack should have allowed 10 round mags and been L10. I have seen comments printed by the former President of USPSA to that effect. But the 1911 single stack society did not agree.

interesting. I'm surprised they were ok w. .40s.
(at least w/ 10 rounds of .45, the gun itself is "as God and JMB intended it to be.")

-rvb

 

[Coach]

interesting. I'm surprised they were ok w. .40s.
(at least w/ 10 rounds of .45, the gun itself is "as God and JMB intended it to be.")

-rvb

Amen to the second part. It is an entirely different division with 10 rounds and major scoring. I would have shot it a lot more if that were the case. I explained that pretty emphatically to Gary Stevens once when we shot the state match on the same squad. I was shooting L10 with my SS .45 and he said he expected to see me shooting SS in the future.

 

[rhino]

Former Area 5 director Gary Stevens who was largely responsible for bringing about Single Stack division, has said that no slide lighting was prohibited in order to keep the guns and holsters and things more traditional or avoid the arms race. Rhino complained about it to him a several occasions, because Rhino has a gun with a lightened slide he would like to use. Gary agreed that it was not a real or serious competitive advantage but plenty of people think it is and they wanted to avoid the arms race. Single Stack nationals was also stuck on top of the existing Single Stack Classic, which was Gary's plan, and meant having to make the rules of the division very similar to what they had already been doing for years. In short the answer could be; "because we have always done it that way." Does not make it right but this is the background as I understand it.

Indeed! Talk about frustrating. People may report it differently now, but the original inspiration for the USPSA single stack rules were IDPA Custom Defensive Pistol rules. In my opinion, the real reason for them (i.e. the guys who started IDPA) disallowing slide cuts was that holes in the slide were a gamer's modification and a big part of the unspoken but obvious theme of IDPA was "NOT IPSC." It was about perception and prejudice in the source, so that was carried to the USPSA rules too.

Slide cuts on a .38 super can make a difference, and probably for a .40 too. I remain unconvinced that slide cut substantially affect the function of a 1911 in .45ACP.

In my case, the cut on the slide was over the extractor channel and was done in the early 1990s. It helps minimize crud that normally accumulates inside (and prevents the extractor from flexing when it gets bad) from accumulating. It's pretty small. It certainly presents no competitive advantage. The reason why I wanted to use that gun in single stack is because it's a custom gun (built on Colt slide and frame), the finest shooting machine I own, and one of probably the 3 best 1911s I've ever fired. I've had people with new high end Wilsons and other guns offer me straight trades (no way). But because of that one little hole in the slide, it can't play in single stack division.

Regardless of how anyone tries to justify the rule at this point, it's really about appearance and ultimately emotions.

 

[rvb]

Indeed! Talk about frustrating. People may report it differently now, but the original inspiration for the USPSA single stack rules were IDPA Custom Defensive Pistol rules. In my opinion, the real reason for them (i.e. the guys who started IDPA) disallowing slide cuts was that holes in the slide were a gamer's modification and a big part of the unspoken but obvious theme of IDPA was "NOT IPSC." It was about perception and prejudice in the source, so that was carried to the USPSA rules too.

Much the same for the rules/history for Production.

Slide cuts on a .38 super can make a difference, and probably for a .40 too. I remain unconvinced that slide cut substantially affect the function of a 1911 in .45ACP.

I think it has more to do w/ how hot the ammo is more than anything... I think if your .45 load is 170-175pf just like a .40 load, you'll get about the same benefit. Then again, the idea that anyone would load .45 to 170pf probably never crossed your mind! haha.

Regardless of how anyone tries to justify the rule at this point, it's really about appearance and ultimately emotions.

yup

-rvb

 

[rhino]

I think it has more to do w/ how hot the ammo is more than anything... I think if your .45 load is 170-175pf just like a .40 load, you'll get about the same benefit. Then again, the idea that anyone would load .45 to 170pf probably never crossed your mind! haha.

Yeah! Why go so low? I think the lowest PF I've ever had with one of my single stack .45ACP guns was 186 PF. Factory 230 FMJ!

 

[rvb]

Yeah! Why go so low?

a gamer's gonna game!

Just dug up some notes...
"230gr zeros over 3.9 clays. WOW. Felt like a factory 9mm load."
"Chrono'd new .45 load. 4.1 clays under 230 gr Zeros, shortened to 1.240-1.245". came in at 170 pf but most importantly SD was reduced to 14-16 fps. (previous load of 4.0 clays at 1.250 barely made pf and had SD of ~75, which was not acceptable)"

note, max book load for clays under a 230 is 4.0 w/ oal of 1.200". So it's a "hot" load despite being so slow...

Gun had a full-weight slide (not tri-topped, flat topped, or nuthin).

-rvb

 

[rhino]

a gamer's gonna game!

Just dug up some notes...
"230gr zeros over 3.9 clays. WOW. Felt like a factory 9mm load."
"Chrono'd new .45 load. 4.1 clays under 230 gr Zeros, shortened to 1.240-1.245". came in at 170 pf but most importantly SD was reduced to 14-16 fps. (previous load of 4.0 clays at 1.250 barely made pf and had SD of ~75, which was not acceptable)"

note, max book load for clays under a 230 is 4.0 w/ oal of 1.200". So it's a "hot" load despite being so slow...

Gun had a full-weight slide (not tri-topped, flat topped, or nuthin).

-rvb

Yeah, I have some of my brothers's handloads in a can at home. I think some of it (or all) is the old 200gr LSWC load we used to shoot back in the 1990s. It's been a long, long time since I shot anything but factory FMJ and JHP in a .45. I'm looking forward to i!

 

[jakemartens]

4.2-4.3grs of clays and 200gr wadcutter
no slide lighten, no flat top, no tri top
168-170pf

first 20 seconds is slo mo

[video=youtube_share;Q4fK7c64MCg]http://youtu.be/Q4fK7c64MCg[/video]

 

[jakemartens]

[video=youtube_share;iyp9fh-u4w8]http://youtu.be/iyp9fh-u4w8[/video]

 

[rvb]

first 20 seconds is slo mo

edit, since it's always better to communicate via youtube soundbites:

[video=youtube;EKXZoSDUbK8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKXZoSDUbK8[/video]

austin powers would make for a great match theme!

-rvb

 

[BillD]

Slide lightening: It's a good way to have to buy another slide when you crack the lightened one. And get if fitted, and have the sight cuts made. On a nice limited gun, it can be an extra grand. Keeps ol Bob in business....

 

[Coach]

Slide lightening: It's a good way to have to buy another slide when you crack the lightened one. And get if fitted, and have the sight cuts made. On a nice limited gun, it can be an extra grand. Keeps ol Bob in business....

Bob does not charge for the new slide. It just cost $90 to send the gun to him.

 

[jakemartens]

Bob does not charge for the new slide. It just cost $90 to send the gun to him.

Try that with a used Brazos and this is what you get
[video=youtube_share;nOG-kkDGaRc]http://youtu.be/nOG-kkDGaRc[/video]