Small rifle primers in pistol

[Elcardo]

With supplies drying up in some areas I found myself unable to get my usual fed100 pistol primers, guy that runs the shop I was at said I could run small rifle , so I picked up 1000 wolf rifle primers for the heck of it (never used wolf but they told me they were a bit dirtier)
Anyone else doing this? Kinda hopeing it works as it would be kinda nice to just order a bunch of 1 primer and that wolf is pretty cheap
Loading 9mm mainly and some 380

 

[Whip_McCord]

I do not think it is a good idea. Never even thought about this in my 39 years of reloading. The small rifle primer will be much hotter than pistol (could cause higher pressures) and the cup will be harder. Harder primer cup could cause misfires as well as making it impossible to gauge pressure signs. They will flatten at pressures much hotter than your pistols can handle. I would not recommend this swap. Did they not have other brands of small pistol primers?

The only swap I've ever done was the opposite: used SP in place of SR primers while loading 22 Hornet for pistol silhouette shooting. The small case and slow pistol powders used for the Hornet don't need as much power as the SR primers have. SP primers produced better accuracy in the 22 Hornet at 100 yards.

You should always keep a few thousand primers on hand of each type you use. They will not go bad like tomatoes. I use the same analogy about bullets too.

 

[Elcardo]

I do not think it is a good idea. Never even thought about this in my 39 years of reloading. The small rifle primer will be much hotter than pistol (could cause higher pressures) and the cup will be harder. Harder primer cup could cause misfires as well as making it impossible to gauge pressure signs. They will flatten at pressures much hotter than your pistols can handle. I would not recommend this swap. Did they not have other brands of small pistol primers?

The only swap I've ever done was the opposite: used SP in place of SR primers while loading 22 Hornet for pistol silhouette shooting. The small case and slow pistol powders used for the Hornet don't need as much power as the SR primers have. SP primers produced better accuracy in the 22 Hornet at 100 yards.

You should always keep a few thousand primers on hand of each type you use. They will not go bad like tomatoes. I use the same analogy about bullets too.

Yea I did keep plenty of SP around but supplies have been hit or miss at best and I've burned through most of my supply, loading for me ,the wife and the kid so it goes quickly....after all this is over I'll definitely reassess what I consider to be an ample supply but it is what it is for now
I know if I try a bit harder I can dig up some SP just thought if this was an easy and viable option I'd take advantage
Thanks for the info, guess I'll just throw em in my 300blk cases and see how they run....usually use cci550 mags in those

 

[Whip_McCord]

Yea I did keep plenty of SP around but supplies have been hit or miss at best and I've burned through most of my supply, loading for me ,the wife and the kid so it goes quickly....after all this is over I'll definitely reassess what I consider to be an ample supply but it is what it is for now

When I buy primers, I buy by the case (5000). I usually have a few cases of each type on hand at any given time. I have a list of primers and bullets that I have on hand and as I go thru a box of 1000 primers or a box of 500 bullets, I subtract that from my on hand totals. When I buy primers or bullets, I add to my totals. It makes it easier to keep track, especially since I load a lot of cartridges. Example of my primers: SP (Fed & Win), SR (std & match), LP (Fed & Win), LR, and shotgun. The Federal primers are reserved for my tuned revolvers.

I keep that info in a spreadsheet with my load data and other info. The start of each year, I do an inventory in case my totals were off. Thought I'd share my method. It may not be the best way for everyone, but I'm in IT and I am pretty detailed about most things.

 

[VinceU1]

When I was shooting USPSA, I used Wolf Small rifle primers on ALL my competition pistol ammo. It didn't matter if I was loading 9mm Major or .38Super/SuperComp. I never had a problem with misfires, hangfires or primers backing out of the pocket they just worked. Also, most powders used for major power loads tend to be fine grained and more difficult to ignite, rifle primers are a real plus in this usage.

If you are building your own ammo, you need to start with the lower levels and build from there. What way, using small rifle primers will be less of a concern.

 

[Elcardo]

When I was shooting USPSA, I used Wolf Small rifle primers on ALL my competition pistol ammo. It didn't matter if I was loading 9mm Major or .38Super/SuperComp. I never had a problem with misfires, hangfires or primers backing out of the pocket they just worked. Also, most powders used for major power loads tend to be fine grained and more difficult to ignite, rifle primers are a real plus in this usage.

If you are building your own ammo, you need to start with the lower levels and build from there. What way, using small rifle primers will be less of a concern.

Thanks for the info, maybe I could start some light 9mm loads for the glock just to give it a try....think I'll keep them out of the wife's 380 loads though, just an lcp2 and i doubt its built very robust and not sure how well it really strikes primers in the first place (not sure if that makes sense)

I definitely need to get more organized with inventory, fortunately the wife is more organize so now I have labeled bins atleast...Haha

 

[billybob44]

Never even thought about this in my 39 years of reloading.

I do not think it is a good idea. Never even thought about this in my 39 years of reloading. The small rifle primer will be much hotter than pistol (could cause higher pressures) and the cup will be harder. Harder primer cup could cause misfires as well as making it impossible to gauge pressure signs. They will flatten at pressures much hotter than your pistols can handle. I would not recommend this swap. Did they not have other brands of small pistol primers?

The only swap I've ever done was the opposite: used SP in place of SR primers while loading 22 Hornet for pistol silhouette shooting. The small case and slow pistol powders used for the Hornet don't need as much power as the SR primers have. SP primers produced better accuracy in the 22 Hornet at 100 yards.

You should always keep a few thousand primers on hand of each type you use. They will not go bad like tomatoes. I use the same analogy about bullets too.

^^^This comes as a surprise to me Whip?? I've been on a press handle since 1972.
During shortage, I have made the swap with great success.
In 2008 when there was some slim pickings, the SR primers went into my 9MM and .40 S&W loads.
YES you DO need a strong hammer spring/striker to set off, and they will be a little hotter than Standard Small Pistol primers.
Somewhere I saw on a web page to treat SR primers like CCI-550 (Magnum) primers in handgun loads??

Drop back your powder charge .2 to .5 of a grain, and load as usual..Bill.

PS: It is true than No Handloader recommends using non Spec components in their loads--Just for the Lawyers and all....

 

[Whip_McCord]

^^^This comes as a surprise to me Whip?? I've been on a press handle since 1972.
During shortage, I have made the swap with great success.
In 2008 when there was some slim pickings, the SR primers went into my 9MM and .40 S&W loads.
YES you DO need a strong hammer spring/striker to set off, and they will be a little hotter than Standard Small Pistol primers.
Somewhere I saw on a web page to treat SR primers like CCI-550 (Magnum) primers in handgun loads??

Drop back your powder charge .2 to .5 of a grain, and load as usual..Bill.

PS: It is true than No Handloader recommends using non Spec components in their loads--Just for the Lawyers and all....

I never let my components get that low. I may have tried it if I needed to I guess, but that was never an issue. You would need to begin load development all over again too. Never used magnum primers either, but that is more determined by the powder.

Although I don't shoot many of my rifle cartridges as much as I used to, I load for 25 cartridges and two shotgun gauges. I guess I always had something to shoot even if I was low on ammo for one or two cartridges. And there is always 22 LR.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Just treat them like small pistol magnum primers and you'll be fine as it's fairly common for competition use in 9mm major, .38 super, etc.

Wolf is a little on the hard side to begin with, and small rifle will probably be a bit harder. Worse case scenario, you end up practicing your malfunction drills if you don't have enough energy to touch them off.

 

[bigedp51]

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications


Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."


NOTE 1: According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.

 

[DadSmith]

I've used small rifle primers for small pistol primers for around 30 years. Never had a problem with them.

 

[Elcardo]

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications


Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."


NOTE 1: According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.

Thank you for posting this , very helpful!!

 

[billybob44]

That's where I saw it...

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications


Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.

Small Rifle Magnum

CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."


NOTE 1: According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.

^^^THANKS Big Ed!! Yeah this was what I recall seeing.
As said upthread, a loader can, as a rule treat SR standard primers the same as SP Magnum primers..Bill.

 

[billybob44]

Made some GREAT Deals on this fact....

"Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine."
^^^
Many New (And Seasoned) handloaders have purchased these Remington 6 1/2's, only to find after the fact that they are NOT recommended for .223 Rem./5.56 Nato loads. It is on the boxes in VERY Small print..HA.HA...

I have made some 2 for 1, and sometimes 3 for 1 trades on Remington 6 1/2's for CCI-400 primers.

As I have said, these (Remington 6 1/2's and other SR primers) have worked well in my 9MM and .40 S&W loads...Bill.

 

[Trapper Jim]

The question is not can you do it..it is should you do it. Many of us handloaders have experimented with primer crossing and I have the records of chrono, pressure signs, group size and accuracy of my work during the first Federal Primer draught many years ago.. While I had no negative reactions I did not get one advantage. However, my results were using the best quality guns. Enter the problem and the reason for caution warnings that say do not use a lawn mower to trim shrubs. None of us can tell what gun, loading equipment and experience Joe Shooter has. One thing for instance is using the wrong primer in Rifle cartridges that can cause slam fires, hang fires, OOB dets or other problems especially from make shift or low line Semi or Full Auto guns. Just saying...beeeee Kareful out there.

Of the many things I find laying around on the Bay Floor it won't surprise me when I find fingers or Cranium parts in the gravel.

 

[billybob44]

Absolutely correct on the safety aspects=BUT=

The question is not can you do it..it is should you do it. Many of us handloaders have experimented with primer crossing and I have the records of chrono, pressure signs, group size and accuracy of my work during the first Federal Primer draught many years ago.. While I had no negative reactions I did not get one advantage. However, my results were using the best quality guns. Enter the problem and the reason for caution warnings that say do not use a lawn mower to trim shrubs. None of us can tell what gun, loading equipment and experience Joe Shooter has. One thing for instance is using the wrong primer in Rifle cartridges that can cause slam fires, hang fires, OOB dets or other problems especially from make shift or low line Semi or Full Auto guns. Just saying...beeeee Kareful out there.

Of the many things I find laying around on the Bay Floor it won't surprise me when I find fingers or Cranium parts in the gravel.

VERY MUCH on point Trap=BUT=We also seem to remember one of the main reasons that we handload==To build a load that is not available from the factories, that will work best in our firearms.

Some substitutions CAN?? come up with a better product.

Anyone notice in the last few years some of the "Big Boys" in ammo MFG's selling Powder Coated Factory loads?? These PC projectiles started out as Custom Loads (Made in a Handloaders Basement) only..Bill.

 

[Trapper Jim]

VERY MUCH on point Trap=BUT=We also seem to remember one of the main reasons that we handload==To build a load that is not available from the factories, that will work best in our firearms.

Some substitutions CAN?? come up with a better product.

Anyone notice in the last few years some of the "Big Boys" in ammo MFG's selling Powder Coated Factory loads?? These PC projectiles started out as Custom Loads (Made in a Handloaders Basement) only..Bill.

yes to this. Competition is the mother of invention. However we were graphite coating DBWC 148 Gr swaged lead bullets Back in the day when I shot Bullseye at The Newman center.

 

[billybob44]

yes to this. Competition is the mother of invention. However we were graphite coating DBWC 148 Gr swaged lead bullets Back in the day when I shot Bullseye at The Newman center.

Yep, and then Speer and Hornady came up with them in the HBWC design..Bill.

 

[2in1evtime]

I have been using small rifle primers in 40s&w for some time now. Have had no issues with it. I have a bunch of 45acp small primer brass i am thinking of doing the same with also, any thoughts on that???

 

[billybob44]

I have been using small rifle primers in 40s&w for some time now. Have had no issues with it. I have a bunch of 45acp small primer brass i am thinking of doing the same with also, any thoughts on that???

This should work fine for you..Remember to back off your powder charge around 10% to start with..Bill.