So, what do I do if an FFL straight up loses my rifle?

[churchmouse]

It doesn't take long searching the internet to find that century is a pretty bad idea.

Though many folks are more than happy to attempt to convince you to give them your money.
Before someone says, "Buuuut the wasr!" just know that century is putting parts kits together, and if they think the above is suitable to sell to a customer, that should tell you all you need to know about them.

Yup. It has been very hard not to scold you about this.

 

[Ark]

A contrasting possibility is that the FFL did exactly as requested but the Century receiving/processing department is so far backed up that it doesn't yet show in their system. I had just that sort of thing happen earlier this year when I had to send a Taurus revolver in for repair. I went to my LGS that I've done lots of business with, and they were nice enough to ship it back using their account as coming from me. I got a receipt for the shipping cost but didn't think to get the tracking number. I then had some business travel so wasn't able to get right on it, but it took almost 2 1/2 weeks for the Taurus on-line status report to show up as received. Needless to say, I also was getting hot and bothered by the situation, and was starting to blame the store, but hadn't yet made it in to complain before it magically showed up in Taurus system.

Given that you've used him for some time, knew them, and apparently have liked them in the past enough to continue doing business with them, you may want to calmly explain your discomfort and see if they can help you out. Going in yelling at them likely won't result in positive results for you.

--Rick

It shipped without an RMA, so if it does show up they're going to refuse the shipment.

Emails went ignored all day yesterday, I guess today I'll call him and advise him that answering his email may be in his interest.

 

[M67]

If it shipped without a RMA and was refused, it would have (theoretically) been received by the FFL again, especially after the time given

Without a tracking number provided it’s all speculation though. Could have got shipped out right the first time and all is well and it’s a case of century sucking. It could have got shipped without a RMA and was refused and said FFL reshipped it out with a RMA the second time. Or someone from the carrying service could have stolen it. Or it could be in shipping limbo at some warehouse.

A lot of questions could be answered if there would be a tracking number provided to you, and with a package this size even if it went USPS it had a tracking number, FedEx and UPS always have one

 

[croy]

I believe with USPS at least, if they refuse to sign it, it sits at the post office for 30 days, and is then returned to the shipper.

 

[4651feeder]

Good luck. Hopefully the owner of the shop takes some responsibility here and gets things figured out!

If I have this correct, the gun shop owner had a gross profit of the transfer fee on the original firearm purchase.

How much more responsibility should the owner of this shop take if he actually did box the gun up and affix a call tag from Century to it?

 

[JettaKnight]

Sorry in advance for the lack of authoritative input, but in addition to the shipping tracking number, isn't the FFL required to sign the serial number in and out of their FFL "log book" when they took the gun in? And back out when they shipped it?

There's a lot of unknowns here and it's beyond anything I've experienced, but I would be strongly considering reporting the gun missing. It has been unaccounted-for quite some time now, and according to the 4473s you have filled out, this gun is currently owned by you. I am not an expert but that would make me nervous. I don't think that gun went in a trash compactor. Sooner or later it's going to turn up, somewhere, and you want to put yourself on the right side of that.

They would have when they transfered it, but in this case I don't think it actually came into their possession, technically... could be wrong.

 

[WebSnyper]

If I have this correct, the gun shop owner had a gross profit of the transfer fee on the original firearm purchase.

How much more responsibility should the owner of this shop take if he actually did box the gun up and affix a call tag from Century to it?

He should be able to provide some proof of chain of custody on the firearm, I'd think. That would be my expectation. In this case, a tracking number.

 

[WebSnyper]

They would have when they transfered it, but in this case I don't think it actually came into their possession, technically... could be wrong.

Interested to hear this. I'd think, but don't know, that it would have to be logged in before it was being shipped (?)

Not the exact scenario:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how...sition-replacement-firearm-licensee’s-records

[h=1]How would a licensee record the disposition of a replacement firearm in the licensee’s records?[/h] A licensee who receives a firearm for repair or customizing, and who returns a replacement firearm, must record the disposition in the licensee’s acquisition and disposition record. However, no ATF Form 4473 is required if the replacement firearm is returned to the same person from whom the licensee received the firearm being replaced. The replacement firearm must be of the same kind and type.

 

[Ark]

Resolution Achieved!

As mentioned earlier, I sent an email documenting events to date, asking for tracking/ship address/logbook check, and naming a time at which I would pursue contacting the authorities if I did not receive a response.

Well, I got a response. A Vegas chicken dinner to whoever had their money on "It never left the FFL". The email was a short and testy explanation about how they basically got frustrated being on hold with Century and put it in the safe and forgot about it. For two weeks. And told me during that time, incorrectly, that it had been sent back.

I immediately drove over and picked up the rifle. The owner stopped me to talk for a minute, and I thought some kind of apology or relationship salvaging attempt might be coming, or at least an honest explanation. What I received instead was a series of lectures, including such favorites as:

-The "we don't appreciate being threatened" lecture

-The "I was on hold with Century for X hours and it's their fault" lecture (I never asked them to call Century, I asked them to email a ticket number for a ticket I already made arrangements on)

-The "my time is worth $70 an hour" lecture

-The "I'm busy with X emails and Y voicemails every day" lecture

-The "See this is why we don't do this kind of thing" lecture

-The "You should have gotten an RMA direct from Century and shipped it yourself" lecture (again, explicitly told this was not an option by Century)

My response to all of this was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and "I'm gonna go now".

There is zero evidence at this time that anything remotely criminal has happened. I am not making any accusations of criminality whatsoever. My complaints are confined to the realm of customer service and personal interaction.

The FFL is American Arms TA in Bloomington, IN. I won't name the owner, but he isn't difficult to find. The matter is concluded, as far as I'm concerned. What anyone else does with this information is their business, and I have no opinion on that.

So...anyone know a guy in Indiana who can straighten and redrill the pin holes on an AK front sight tower?

 

[WebSnyper]

Resolution Achieved!

As mentioned earlier, I sent an email documenting events to date, asking for tracking/ship address/logbook check, and naming a time at which I would pursue contacting the authorities if I did not receive a response.

Well, I got a response. A Vegas chicken dinner to whoever had their money on "It never left the FFL". The email was a short and testy explanation about how they basically got frustrated being on hold with Century and put it in the safe and forgot about it. For two weeks. And told me during that time, incorrectly, that it had been sent back.

I immediately drove over and picked up the rifle. The owner stopped me to talk for a minute, and I thought some kind of apology or relationship salvaging attempt might be coming, or at least an honest explanation. What I received instead was a series of lectures, including such favorites as:

-The "we don't appreciate being threatened" lecture

-The "I was on hold with Century for X hours and it's their fault" lecture (I never asked them to call Century, I asked them to email a ticket number for a ticket I already made arrangements on)

-The "my time is worth $70 an hour" lecture

-The "I'm busy with X emails and Y voicemails every day" lecture

-The "See this is why we don't do this kind of thing" lecture

-The "You should have gotten an RMA direct from Century and shipped it yourself" lecture (again, explicitly told this was not an option by Century)

My response to all of this was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and "I'm gonna go now".

There is zero evidence at this time that anything remotely criminal has happened. I am not making any accusations of criminality whatsoever. My complaints are confined to the realm of customer service and personal interaction.

The FFL is American Arms TA in Bloomington, IN. I won't name the owner, but he isn't difficult to find. The matter is concluded, as far as I'm concerned. What anyone else does with this information is their business, and I have no opinion on that.

So...anyone know a guy in Indiana who can straighten and redrill the pin holes on an AK front sight tower?

Outstanding.

As far as a fix, I'd check with AllenM (Avon/Diamond Collision) , Havlin's ( Brownsburg https://www.indygunsmith.com/ ) , or ZR Tactical (Noblesville I believe). I'd start with Allen first.

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm no help on a recommended gunsmith. But glad you were able to recover the gun from an FFL that obviously has trouble following up on tasks.

 

[churchmouse]

Resolution Achieved!

As mentioned earlier, I sent an email documenting events to date, asking for tracking/ship address/logbook check, and naming a time at which I would pursue contacting the authorities if I did not receive a response.

Well, I got a response. A Vegas chicken dinner to whoever had their money on "It never left the FFL". The email was a short and testy explanation about how they basically got frustrated being on hold with Century and put it in the safe and forgot about it. For two weeks. And told me during that time, incorrectly, that it had been sent back.

I immediately drove over and picked up the rifle. The owner stopped me to talk for a minute, and I thought some kind of apology or relationship salvaging attempt might be coming, or at least an honest explanation. What I received instead was a series of lectures, including such favorites as:

-The "we don't appreciate being threatened" lecture

-The "I was on hold with Century for X hours and it's their fault" lecture (I never asked them to call Century, I asked them to email a ticket number for a ticket I already made arrangements on)

-The "my time is worth $70 an hour" lecture

-The "I'm busy with X emails and Y voicemails every day" lecture

-The "See this is why we don't do this kind of thing" lecture

-The "You should have gotten an RMA direct from Century and shipped it yourself" lecture (again, explicitly told this was not an option by Century)

My response to all of this was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and "I'm gonna go now".

There is zero evidence at this time that anything remotely criminal has happened. I am not making any accusations of criminality whatsoever. My complaints are confined to the realm of customer service and personal interaction.

The FFL is American Arms TA in Bloomington, IN. I won't name the owner, but he isn't difficult to find. The matter is concluded, as far as I'm concerned. What anyone else does with this information is their business, and I have no opinion on that.

So...anyone know a guy in Indiana who can straighten and redrill the pin holes on an AK front sight tower?

And you did far better than I would have done.

Now....who in the hell is this store. None of us want to waste time money or effort and a slinger smart butt.

 

[JettaKnight]

Resolution Achieved!

Excellent, but the bad news is you still have a wonky WASR.

There is zero evidence at this time that anything remotely criminal has happened. I am not making any accusations of criminality whatsoever. My complaints are confined to the realm of customer service and personal interaction.

Yeah, I can imagine that dealing with CA could drive a dealer mad.

So...anyone know a guy in Indiana who can straighten and redrill the pin holes on an AK front sight tower?

This is probably the best solution - there's plenty of AK builders around that can handle this. And maybe check it out for any other problems.

 

[JettaKnight]

And you did far better than I would have done.

Now....who in the hell is this store. None of us want to waste time money or effort and a slinger smart butt.

Uh...

The [dealer] is American Arms TA in Bloomington, IN. I won't name the owner, but he isn't difficult to find. The matter is concluded, as far as I'm concerned. What anyone else does with this information is their business, and I have no opinion on that.

 

[Ark]

And you did far better than I would have done.

Now....who in the hell is this store. None of us want to waste time money or effort and a slinger smart butt.

Current name is in the post. I believe they've been in a couple of different locations in Bloomington under one or two different names, before moving out to the county by the airport several years ago and rebranding.

Ultimately, I had eyes on my property and no particular objective to be achieved by throwing a fit in the store. His actions speak for themselves, better to exercise some shoe sole democracy and get on with my life than be a big Karen about it.

I will acknowledge, begrudgingly, that as the only "full service" gun store in town, they were hit hard by the covid panic.

I'll drop Allen a message about fixing it, I owe him one for answering some questions a while back.

 

[Ark]

Would also appreciate any recommendations on a new FFL in the Bloomington area. Really want to make the move to dealing with a kitchen table FFL for $15-20/transfer and no "gun shop" BS. I know what I'm looking for and don't need to browse, chat, or be upsold, I just want someone to sign for packages and do a 4473.

 

[churchmouse]

Uh...

Um....err..…..uh...…..OK thanks.....

 

[Tombs]

Would also appreciate any recommendations on a new FFL in the Bloomington area. Really want to make the move to dealing with a kitchen table FFL for $15-20/transfer and no "gun shop" BS. I know what I'm looking for and don't need to browse, chat, or be upsold, I just want someone to sign for packages and do a 4473.

While it's not in Bloomington, it's close enough. Martinsville Guns LLC is fantastic and about as close to a kitchen table FFL as you'll get for an FFL that actually has a store. I've used them for the past 3 years exclusively and have always loved dealing with them.

 

[bloodandgutsmurphy]

I would like to offer you two suggestions
1) Take your AK to Copper Custom/Definitive Arms in Valparaiso. Chase, who works there, builds AK's for a living and is a very talented gun Smith. He will take good care of you

2) Leathet Limited in a small gun shop in Bloomington. The owner, Gary, runs the shop out of his garage. That is the closest thing to a kitchen table FFL you will get in the area

 

[JohnP82]

Wow, crazy story.
I gotta give you credit for owning up to your mistakes (hey, we all make them), and even more credit for the way you handled it

Thanks for sharing, hopefully it can help save someone the headache in the future!

I have to admit, I have a specific FFL I have dealt with for over 15 years now and honestly I could have seen myself make the same mistake of handing it over to him without record (although I don't know that he would do that), especially on a Friday in a fit of frustration over a quality issue of a new purchase.