I was referring to your statements about "why don't you just spend your time shooting the squirt gun game at the fair" and "If people are REALLY just thinking about ONLY plinking paper when they purchase a BATTLE RIFLE that costs 28c + per shot for commercial ammo, then they are missing the point, or wasting their money. I can see NO REASON AT ALL to shoot anything but .22lr for exclusive paper use, based on cost alone." It seemed to me that if your not going to use a 'battle rifle' for it's intended purpose then you shouldn't need one.
Also the benefit that the higher end rifles will run 100% is not exactly there. True, the strict adherence in materials, specs, and testing that goes into the top tier rifles gives them a much higher probability that they will function fine and not have issues. It does not, however, mean they are immune to problems. I have personally seen a cracked bolt (cam pin hole) on an actual issue Colt M4 with a relatively low round count. It happens, anything mechanical can and will eventually fail. Do I think Colt sucks now? Absolutely not. I'm just not naive enough to think that a top tier rifle guarantees 100% performance. Ever wonder why training to correct failure is given in every carbine class? It’s because failures happen. They don’t do it just in case someone shows up with a sub-par rifle.
Now, my Colt has run 100% since I bought it (around 500 rounds through it now). So has my DPMS rifle with around 4,000 rounds over the years I’ve owned it with only a change of the gas rings. I’m not worried that the DPMS will fail all the time because it hasn’t given me any reason to believe so. Are the rifles in the same class? No, but I don’t say they are either. My own personal experience has led me to believe they are both reliable even though neither has the intended purpose of going to war, or using as a duty weapon. If a situation were to arise that warranted the use of a rifle, I would grab either one knowing that it’s only going to be a few rounds at the most and that both go bang every time. I don't need someone to tell me I'm ignorant or a dumb*** for having the DPMS.
Agreed, but there are better ways of doing this other than going for the jugular. Also finding out the intended purpose and situation before giving this information could be taken into consideration as well.
I never said anything about these competitors using inexpensive AR-15s. I would expect they would go with a higher quality rifle due to the higher round count they are going to put through the rifle. Also, they usually use highly modified rifles that are not set up as ‘fighting rifles’ like you’re going to get from BCM or Colt. What I was doing here was countering your comment that if someone is only going to use an AR-15 for plinking paper, they are wasting their money and should just use a .22LR as they make the same size hole.
This was a great post in a thread concerning Del-Ton rifles over at M4C that says what I think great:
"Can I ask whats wrong with a guy wanting a fun gun to shirt dirt clods at the farm with? If that's the intended role of the gun, and a few hundred rounds a year is all you plan to shoot, and the gun is just a casual plinker, couldn't one of these Del-Ton kit's be a perfectly good gun for that purpose?
This place cracks me up sometimes. The level of snobery is sometimes unreal. I'm not trying to bash anyone so don't get me wrong. I'm sure that was not your intent with your comment. I understnad your point within the context of the conversation taking place. But one thing I have noticed is that this site tends to be the hangout for a lot of very serious shooters. Good info abounds, and there is a lot of experience here from people that know the platform and what makes a really good AR. As a result, a lot of people here seem to think of the AR platform strictly within the context of a gun for serious business. But don't dismiss the fact that a lot of casual shooters think the AR platform is pretty neaty (can you blaim them) and they want one to play with. And they come here to learn about their guns.
This sort of buyer is never going to attend a carbine class, never going to fire a shot in anger, never going to go to war, never going to carry their carbine on patrol etc. They are gonna shoot beer cans a couple of weekends a year with a gun that looks cool and is fun to shoot. If that is your intended role for the gun, I'd argue that a top tier high dollar gun is arguably a waste of money for some people.
These sort of folks come here to get some good information and guidance on there purchase and how to use it and they get their teeth kicked in. Or maybe they are excited and make a post about how happy they are with their purchase and then their post is followed by several pages where people basically imply, or explicitly say how stupid, ignorant, or cheap that person was for not ponying up a few hundred more dollars for a gun they would never fully take advantage of. I don't think there is anything wrong with being the type of guy who insists on the best. Hell if you want a BCM just for busting dirt clods there is nothing wrong with that either.
Anyway, I've owned the less expensive guns, and some high quality guns too. In fact I owned a Del-Ton and it served me quite well for my purposes. It was a fun gun for casual use and filled that role quite admirably. I knew when I bought it it was a hobby gun. I knew the difference between a true mil-spec gun and a hobby gun and I still bought it. I knew when I bought it that I wouldn't be putting thousands of rounds a weekend through it at carbine courses several times a year. Had that been my plan I would have gotten something else (in fact since then I have as I'm getting interested in doing some formal training and using the platform for HD). Anyway, fact is thats not what I needed at the time. If were in the market for a plinker again, I'd buy another Del-Ton with no regrets. And before anyone assumes I'm just cheap, I own plenty of high dollar guns, ARs and others, because paying for that level of performance was worth it to me for their intended role.
I just think when a guy says "What do you think about Del-ton/DPMS/Etc" the correct response would be to ask the intended purpose of the gun. If the guy says it's just a plinker/fun gun, it would be reasonble to say that a Del-Ton will serve them quite well. If he asks for a recomendation for a gun for serious use then the recomendations of Colt/BCM/DD/Noveske/Etc are an appropriate response. In either case, implying someone is a cheap dumbass for purchasing something like a DPMS is just snobbery. If they were planning on taking a DPMS to war, then certainly they need a serious education, but if it's for bustin dirt clods on the back fourty, well seems to me it will do just fine in most cases.
Now on the other hand, the guys that want to come on here and call top tier owners a bunch of dumbasses for wasting their money on a Noveske/Colt/DD etc when a Del-Ton is "just as good". Well those guys are genuinely ignorant dumbasses so have at'em.
Adrock1"
That pretty much sums it up for me.
