Somebody's feeling the bern...

[actaeon277]

I have a bad back, and severe migraines, yet can work there.
The "trainee" I'm breaking in, is 62 years old, and walks like Cotton Hill (King of the Hill cartoon) because of bad knees.
You just have to know your craft, and try.
There is a dearth of craftsmen anymore. If you can turn a wrench or a screwdriver, someone will hire.

 

[jsharmon7]

They accepted a job that pays $31,000 per year for 40 hours of work. If there was no promise of overtime, then that’s the deal they’re getting. Why is Bernie the bad guy for not agreeing to renegotiate the deal these people agreed to when hired? He’s holding up his end of that deal as far as I can tell. I’m no supporter if Bernie Sanders, but I don’t see him as the bad guy here.

 

[printcraft]

The Bernie employee who are agitating. Go back and see what they are agitating for. It's not less hours. Sure, that is perfectly legal and probably wise.....but it does not seem to be the standard he is holding others to.

Based upon what I have learned in this thread, I should be thrilled to have my employer cut my hours to about 7.5 a week so they can pay me the equivalent​ to $15/hr.

 

[HoughMade]

They accepted a job that pays $31,000 per year for 40 hours of work. If there was no promise of overtime, then that’s the deal they’re getting. Why is Bernie the bad guy for not agreeing to renegotiate the deal these people agreed to when hired? He’s holding up his end of that deal as far as I can tell. I’m no supporter if Bernie Sanders, but I don’t see him as the bad guy here.

He's not a "bad guy" in his relationship with his employees. He is paying them what they agreed to work for.

However, he constantly is railing against business about paying employees more and when faced with a negotiation and the opportunity to do so, is doing exactly what he criticizes others for doing and, in fact, is proving the economic truth that people pushing back against a higher minimum wage, advocated by him, have been saying: you can't just raise the minimum wage and expect it to result in people making more money. Does that make him a "bad guy"? I don't know about that, but it makes him, in the language of his people, a schmuck.

 

[CampingJosh]

The Bernie employee who are agitating. Go back and see what they are agitating for. It's not less hours. Sure, that is perfectly legal and probably wise.....but it does not seem to be the standard he is holding others to.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e684b7084e7a

I understand what is going on.

Bernie has declared that $15 x 40 hours is a living wage. People who want more than that are welcome to work an additional job during their free hours, but his workers are earning a living wage for their 40 hours.

He's giving them what they claim they want (by their politics). After all, anyone who wants more than $600 gross per week is just being greedy.

Again, my position is not that this is in any way good. It's just not hypocrisy.

 

[jamil]

The Bernie employee who are agitating. Go back and see what they are agitating for. It's not less hours. Sure, that is perfectly legal and probably wise.....but it does not seem to be the standard he is holding others to.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e684b7084e7a

The way Bernie explained it, the workers already make >$15/hr if their workweek is 40 hours. I think I read that their annual salary is around $35K/year. Since they are salaried employees, Sanders doesn't have to pay them for the hours they work over 40. What the employees are saying, they want their annual salary to reflect >$15/hour for the hours they work. Sanders response was to work them enough hours less that their annualized salary broken down by hours is >$15/hour. So it's not quite the story that conservative media outlets are telling. The way it's being portrayed, these people are earning poverty wages and Sanders is cutting their pay rather than giving them living wages. But $35K/year is a living wage regardless of how many hours you're working.

My take on it is that it's probably a progressive hit piece on Bernie because he's not bat **** crazy enough for them; they want one of the fresher faces to win the primary. Bernie's too old, too white, too male. And of course, conservatives are a willing participant in mocking Bernie. I'm not trying to defend Bernie. Just trying to suss out what's true about it.

 

[HoughMade]

Time to stop looking at trees, it's forest time.

Bernie has advocated the position that employers have plenty of money to just pay their employees more if the government decides they should. He has gone so far as to call employers who won't greedy.

Sure, he has the right to cut hours, but isn't his campaign just as "greedy" by not simply paying more which is what his unionized employees want? And if anyone says- hey, they don't have the money to just pay them more.....well that's the point, isn't it. What he is doing is resolving this (or trying to given that this is a negotiation) in a way that costs the campaign -0- dollars, as is his right. When the "little guy" employees really want more money, not less hours.

His actions do not match his claims.

 

[IndyDave1776]

They accepted a job that pays $31,000 per year for 40 hours of work. If there was no promise of overtime, then that’s the deal they’re getting. Why is Bernie the bad guy for not agreeing to renegotiate the deal these people agreed to when hired? He’s holding up his end of that deal as far as I can tell. I’m no supporter if Bernie Sanders, but I don’t see him as the bad guy here.

Bernie is the bag guy for not doing what he wants to force the rest of us to do.

 

[jamil]

Time to stop looking at trees, it's forest time.

Bernie has advocated the position that employers have plenty of money to just pay their employers more if the government decides they should.

His actions do not match his claims.

I think we keep moving the levels of abstraction to hold onto the preferred narrative. And hey, I was right there when I thought Bernie was paying these people poverty earnings, they demanded their $15/hour, and he cut their hours to afford the $15/hour. If that's the story, yes. It's hypocrisy. It's less of a story when we add in all the facts. They're making >$35k/year, they're working ~50+ hours per week. Bernie reduced their hours so that they don't have to work so many hours for the same money. I think that's not exactly what the workers wanted, but then, as I said, I think it's a hit piece and someone riled up the workers to make them think they're getting screwed.

 

[actaeon277]

They agreed to a salaried job.
Now they're upset with working a salaried job.

 

[HoughMade]

Hey, I'm not on their "side". Merely pointing out that Bernie is trying to solve this problem in a legal, reasonable, logical way....which he would criticize others for doing.

 

[printcraft]

Time to stop looking at trees, it's forest time.

Bernie has advocated the position that employers have plenty of money to just pay their employees more if the government decides they should. He has gone so far as to call employers who won't greedy.

Sure, he has the right to cut hours, but isn't his campaign just as "greedy" by not simply paying more which is what his unionized employees want? And if anyone says- hey, they don't have the money to just pay them more.....well that's the point, isn't it. What he is doing is resolving this (or trying to given that this is a negotiation) in a way that costs the campaign -0- dollars, as is his right. When the "little guy" employees really want more money, not less hours.

His actions do not match his claims.

Also, productivity will take a hit as well. Where is the magic pill that is going to make the workers work harder during their decreased hours?

I make $5 per hour and it takes me 3 hours to make 30 widgets.
I now make $15 an hour but I only work one hour, I can only make 10 widgets in that time period, you can't expect me to work harder you greedy capitalist.

 

[jsharmon7]

Maybe I don’t follow his politics enough, since I thought his issue was advocating a $15 minimum wage. If so, that’s what he’s doing. Now, I think even $15/hour is not an easy row to hoe these days.

 

[printcraft]

Maybe I don’t follow his politics enough, since I thought his issue was advocating a $15 minimum wage. If so, that’s what he’s doing. Now, I think even $15/hour is not an easy row to hoe these days.

Yes, but he is gaming the system to be able to get there which is NOT what he is advocating.
His plan is no changes in hours, work required etc. just $15 an hour minimum from whatever the wage was before.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Also, productivity will take a hit as well. Where is the magic pill that is going to make the workers work harder during their decreased hours?

I make $5 per hour and it takes me 3 hours to make 30 widgets.
I now make $15 an hour but I only work one hour, I can only make 10 widgets in that time period, you can't expect me to work harder you greedy capitalist.

https://www.history.com/specials/nazis-on-drugs-hitler-and-the-blitzkrieg

 

[HoughMade]

...I thought his issue was advocating a $15 minimum wage. If so, that’s what he’s doing. Now...

Now....yes...now, after years and years of advocating for the $15 minimum wage and after being forced into this position by his own employees. Would it take protests by and negotiations with his unionized employees if he were a "true believer"?

...And does anyone think that if it were not his campaign but was any private business he would be just dandy with an employer putting people on salary to avoid paying overtime and expecting them to work 60 hours a week?

Anyone?

Me? I'm fine with it because they agreed to it.

Bernie? He's the guy beating up the business owners for doing the exact same thing.

 

[actaeon277]

So, why is this just directed at 1 candidate? Any bets on the other candidates not paying $15/hr?

 

[Phase2]

So, why is this just directed at 1 candidate? Any bets on the other candidates not paying $15/hr?

From another thread:

Every candidate that supports a $15 minimum wage should be asked (or better fact-checked) whether they are paying their campaign workers at least that amount. And I'm not just talking presidential candidates.

 

[BugI02]

Yes, but he is gaming the system to be able to get there which is NOT what he is advocating.
His plan is no changes in hours, work required etc. just $15 an hour minimum from whatever the wage was before.

Seems to fit the pattern, though. One set of rules for the proles; a different, less ... restrictive ... set for the politburo

 

[IndyDave1776]

Maybe I don’t follow his politics enough, since I thought his issue was advocating a $15 minimum wage. If so, that’s what he’s doing. Now, I think even $15/hour is not an easy row to hoe these days.

Again, the problem is that he refused to do this voluntarily while spouting off about FORCING everyone else to do so.