Someone, take my safety - PLEASE!

[Westside]

*kicks rocks, crosses arms*

Can't even do my own material. *kicks more rocks, hands in pockets* Still gonna try . . .



Hey, have I told you guys about the 870 at Shootrite?

Eez gon, eez not safe.

Each to his own, just follow The Four Rules and we'll be fine.

 

[Classic]

It's just a poor designed holster or one that should have been replaced.
Just like carrying a Glock in a purse without any holster with pens and other stuff in there who could activate the trigger.Just not a smart thing to do.
That's user's fault here.Not gun's fault.

Yes, some weapons are less safe and require special handling and special accessories.

 

[the1kidd03]

Great, another "what I have or do is best post".

Last ND/AD I saw posted occurred when the user shoved his Glock into his hip holster and the trigger caught on the edge of the leather holster. Hole in the floorboard and hot seat in the pants never would have happened with a safety equipped firearm.

I agree with getting tired of that typical "what I do is best" articles/videos.

That said, not knowing MAC personally other than from his videos, he hardly strikes me as the type to try presenting material/opinions in such a fashion. From his previous demeanor and how he chose to write this, I simply took this article as a "from my point of view" piece much more so than some others in the industry.

To that point, I would contest that the safety is not necessarily for the carrier. Real conflicts have a way of getting up close and personal much faster than anticipated if you even do have time to foresee them. In the unlikely event a BG was able to get your gun away from you, that active safety could give you a much needed second or two to react appropriately considering the average criminal is not highly trained and knowledgeable in weapons.

I don't subscribe to the mantra of losing fine dexterity during a hostile scenario. I haven't personally noticed it when put into such situations. I train with safety and THE safety in mind (mind, finger, mechanical). Gun drawn, safety off. Gun aimed, finger on trigger.

It's up to each person's level of comfort, training, experience, etc. which is best for them but again I don't subscribe to the "one size fits all mantra."

 

[Birds Away]

I agree with you, Sylvain. However, we have to admit that there are a lot of people who carry everyday but don't really have the firearms experience that we wished they did. Anyone on here who frequents gun shops can probably remember the noob coming in saying he just got his "permit" and was looking for a carry piece. Do you think this person, knowing he will probably shove it in an Uncle Mike's as soon as he is out the door, should be recommended a Glock? I certainly don't. Not bashing Glocks either. I'm simply saying that Glock is an excellent and extremely safe weapon in the right hands. In a perfect world everyone would be as safety conscious as I know we all here on INGO are. We don't live in a perfect world.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Great, another "what I have or do is best post".

Last ND/AD I saw posted occurred when the user shoved his Glock into his hip holster and the trigger caught on the edge of the leather holster. Hole in the floorboard and hot seat in the pants never would have happened with a safety equipped firearm.

Unfortunately that's an assumption on your part. A safety would have prevented that if he had applied it. Many people have safeties on pistols like the Shield and choose to ignore it because they don't feel it's necessary.

Also, the AD would have never happened if he had a proper/modern holster. Using leather holsters with pistols like the Glock is a bad idea, and this isn't news to many of us who have been around them for a few decades. That's why I carry my defensive pistol in a Kydex holster. It's also why I don't do foolish things like take a loaded pistol out in a car or attempt to reholster it while seated. I have holsters that are easy on/off that allow me to leave the pistol holstered with the trigger covered should I need to remove it.

Your post implies he was in a car when he was fiddling with his gun given the floorboard comment.

 

[Rob377]

Ah, so your question was more as a learning point or comment of respect and admiration, rather than incredulity or shock. Tone is sometimes lost on the internet. My apologies, sir.

A little of all of the above? I am actually kinda curious how he was able to bend the GS arm (on a cast part) down far enough to continuously block the trigger bow, or over far enough to jam itself into the sear or disconnector, and do so without snapping it off. Bad heat treat sounds plausible.

I'd submit that deforming the stamped parts in a Glock would probably be just as easy, if not moreso. I think I've still got a G21 trigger bar I dropped and accidentally stepped on in one of my parts bins. (lest anyone doubt my tendency to break things )

 

[roadrunner681]

i dont think it matters carry what you want, if we all like the same thing we carry the same gun.

 

[SmokinSigs357]

Can I play devil's advocate here?

Say you have a Glock (or insert "safty-less firearm of your choice) and get in an altercation where, by bad luck or whatever, your opponent winds up with your weapon and he/she may not necessarily be a gun-person who point-blank pulls the trigger right in your face/gut/testicles...

Say the same happens to you when you have your SR9c, 1911, HK...and the safety is on...opponent (again, not really being a gun person) tries to discharge your weapon and no bangy...you live to fight another day.

Again, just playin' devil's advocate. I see plenty of "Gun TV" whereby the Gunsite (or insert TV firearms training facility here) trainer draws, releases safety as if it was second nature and trains students the same.

 

[WestSider]

I agree on external safeties, I don't like them. After having owned and carried the M&P Shield for about a year now I can say that it is the only gun that I have ever carried with an external thumb safety in which I feel 100% confident that I can leave it off all the time and it won't accidentally get switched on by either myself or the holster. They did a good job designing that safety in a way in which you can use it if you want or just ignore it and pretend it's not there. I think it is by far the lesser of the 2 evils between that and the XDS's grip safety which you are forced to use whether you want to or not.

 

[iChokePeople]

Can I play devil's advocate here?

Say you have a Glock (or insert "safty-less firearm of your choice) and get in an altercation where, by bad luck or whatever, your opponent winds up with your weapon and he/she may not necessarily be a gun-person who point-blank pulls the trigger right in your face/gut/testicles...

Say the same happens to you when you have your SR9c, 1911, HK...and the safety is on...opponent (again, not really being a gun person) tries to discharge your weapon and no bangy...you live to fight another day.

Again, just playin' devil's advocate. I see plenty of "Gun TV" whereby the Gunsite (or insert TV firearms training facility here) trainer draws, releases safety as if it was second nature and trains students the same.

You're going to base your decision on what to carry on that? Might want to carry with an empty chamber, too...

 

[wesnellans]

Me? I'm waiting on the revolver guys to chime in soon.

 

[roadrunner681]

Me? I'm waiting on the revolver guys to chime in soon.

oh were around dont worry.

 

[JLL101]

There is not going to be agreement between pro and anti gun safety camps. There is rational for both positions. Each of us must decide what works for us. My personal background with guns began with hunting weapons at age 11 or 12. Those weapons all had safeties which to this novice was very reassuring. My mentors ensured I understood and properly used the safeties. When I was in the military in the early 70s, my assigned weapons (M16 and 1911) both had safeties. Thus because of these experiences, I became totally indoctrinated in the use of safeties. I feel completely comfortable using a safety on my guns of choice. I ensure that I practice the nuances of my respective carry and long guns including the use of the safety. I have carried two handguns without safeties because at the time they were acquired they were, to me, the best available carry guns in the calibers I preferred. Fortunately with the current proliferation of great carry guns, my guns of choice now have safeties and I have sold the earlier acquisitions that did not have safeties.

 

[esrice]

People quickly forget that guns, and fighting with them, is a dangerous affair in its own right. While risk can be mitigated, it will never be eliminated like so many "safeties" attempt to do.

Yes, safeties can mitigate risk. But there are some downsides (as MAC pointed out). Training can also mitigate risk. The best part is, training mitigates the risk at the source, and not as a bandaid approach.

I personally prefer the training route.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'll save kirk the trouble.


Have you heard about the 870 at shoot-rite?

Can we just make it a FAQ and/or sticky and be done with it?

 

[SmokinSigs357]

You're going to base your decision on what to carry on that? Might want to carry with an empty chamber, too...

Did you NOT notice the "devil's advocate"???

NO, its not purple...but a VERY valid point. Opponent, close quarters, altercation...gets your Glock...bang...yer dead or in the hospital. Knive, stab...yer dead or in the hospital.

Gun with safety...opponent pulls trigger, no bang. You counter. You probably live or don't wind up in the hospital with a gunshot wound.

I said nothing about carrying with an empty chamber and for you to assume that carrying cocked and locked is the equivalent of doing so....I'll be respectful...

 

[iChokePeople]

Did you NOT notice the "devil's advocate"???

NO, its not purple...but a VERY valid point. Opponent, close quarters, altercation...gets your Glock...bang...yer dead or in the hospital. Knive, stab...yer dead or in the hospital.

Gun with safety...opponent pulls trigger, no bang. You counter. You probably live or don't wind up in the hospital with a gunshot wound.

I said nothing about carrying with an empty chamber and for you to assume that carrying cocked and locked is the equivalent of doing so....I'll be respectful...

We all have to make our choices. Mine will not be based on how best to handicap my enemy in case he gets my gun. If that's a big point for someone else, fine.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Me? I'm waiting on the revolver guys to chime in soon.

Hi. Official revolver guy here.

I'd argue modern revolvers are the safest guns out there, and don't have a manual or passive safety (yes, I'm aware there are exceptions like the S&Ws with grip safeties).

External safeties are all fine and dandy in certain applications, I suppose. I'd hate to carry a cocked and locked 1911 without one. However an external hammer is more my speed. If you touch off a double action revolver reholstering it, you were probably going to electrocute yourself making toast in the shower to save time tomorrow morning anyway.

Even old school non-drop safe revolvers are safe as mumsy's arms if you carry without one under the hammer. You can bang it around all day and with no round lined up with the firing pin, its not going off. Unlike a semi-auto, its still ready to go with the first trigger pull, though.

We live in a golden age of choice, though, plenty of options for any crowd.

 

[SmokinSigs357]

We all have to make our choices. Mine will not be based on how best to handicap my enemy in case he gets my gun. If that's a big point for someone else, fine.

Great point. I saw the thread and somehow thought of my "devil's advocate" angle. Was curious to see what INGOers had to say.

 

[ru44mag]

Hi. Official revolver guy here.

I'd argue modern revolvers are the safest guns out there, and don't have a manual or passive safety (yes, I'm aware there are exceptions like the S&Ws with grip safeties).

External safeties are all fine and dandy in certain applications, I suppose. I'd hate to carry a cocked and locked 1911 without one. However an external hammer is more my speed. If you touch off a double action revolver reholstering it, you were probably going to electrocute yourself making toast in the shower to save time tomorrow morning anyway.

Even old school non-drop safe revolvers are safe as mumsy's arms if you carry without one under the hammer. You can bang it around all day and with no round lined up with the firing pin, its not going off. Unlike a semi-auto, its still ready to go with the first trigger pull, though.

We live in a golden age of choice, though, plenty of options for any crowd.

I must admit BBI, I can't remember one of your posts I did not like. Wise as always. I do however find it annoying when someones opinion is stated as fact. So, should I take my Hi-powers and my P238 and have them scrapped because someone else thinks they are unsafe. We all know there are people out there that should only carry one bullet, and that is in his shirt pocket. But for the rest of us that know our firearms, I think we will carry what we want. Tonight I came home with my Taurus 605. No safety issues there. Tomorrow maybe I will carry my CM9. OP would be happy with that. But maybe I will carry my P238. That's bad isn't it. My first gun 32 years ago was a .410 single shot. My first handgun 26 years ago was a Ruger SA 44mag you see it to your left top. If you shoot enough the hammer comes back automatically before the gun is on target. A 1911 or whatever is the same. Gun drawn, safety off as it is coming out of the holster. Everyone has an opinion. Before you change mine, you will have to do better.