Sporterizing milsurps

[247survivalmindset]

I have been wondering about this ever since I started looking at mosin and sks rifles. Is it really sacrilege to sporterize these old war time relics? I know people get upset about guns that were actually in WWII, and I agree, but what about the ones that weren't?

 

[GregD]

 

[chef larry]

Welcome from Hobart.

 

[Roadie]

Moving post from Greetings to proper Forum..

 

[BogWalker]

Most frown on it, as do I. If you want to sporterize though, nobody will bat an eye if you modify an already sporterised rifle. Ones that have been modified already are cheaper anyway. If I were you I'd buy one that was already sportered and change it to your liking. Cheaper and nobody is going to give you any fuss over it.

And welcome to INGO! We're a very friendly group of people.

 

[PMPORTER]

I agree with BogWalker, get one that Bubba already hacked up and make it the way you want. I have put a few back to original, I can't stand to see a Classic firearm with a bunch of plastic crap hanging off of it !! Back in the 50's they cut up a bunch for hunting rifles. I have an Enfield that needs brought back to her former glory.

 

[223 Gunner]

I once did a full restoration of a NO.1 MK.III. It was fun, but the bad news is, I had more in the rifle than what it was worth at the time.

 

[singlesix]

Unless it has some significant historical value I don't see anything wrong with making modifications. Really even if it had historical value it's your rifle so you can do as you please. Personally I don't make any mods because the reason I buy surplus is because I want that type of rifle and not a project gun.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Everytime an old milsurp rifle gets modified, God kills a kitten. Think of the kittens!

I'd agree if it had no historical significance. I could see taking a Mauser (probably not a K98) and making a sporting rifle out of it, if it was one of the more common types. But by that I mean putting the barreled action into a sporting stock, not cutting the original down. But generally speaking I like them the way they are.

 

[Libertarian01]

To 247survivalmindset (et alia),

First, Welcome to INGO!

Second, DO NOT BUTCHER THE OLD MILITARY RIFLES!

There are multiple reasons for this. One of the most overlooked ones is that it will simply devalue your firearm - always and every time! This does not just pertain to firearms but to all things historic. The collectors who pay serious money for olde, collectable stuff want it in as near to original condition as possible. The farther we get from that the lower the value of the item, in this case a military firearm.

Say we take a cheap Mosin-Nagant M91/30 we pay $125 for. We chop it up and add a cool scope. Say the scope is pretty good at $200 (I don't know scopes so am just guessing here.) Total investment = $325. Now, several years later we want to sell said rifle. Rifle, due to butchery goes down in value to $75 - $100. Scope is now used so goes down to $100 - $150. Total new value after "modified improvement" = $175 - $250.

The next biggest reason is that none of these rifles will EVER be made again. Each one that is "lost" due to chopping up (ie. sporterizing) is gone forever. No more will ever be made. The piece of history is gone for good.

I like collecting so that I can better understand what it was that soldiers in bygone years had to endure. What did they have to work with? What must it have been like to tromp through the trenches of WWI with an M1903? I know because I own one in original configuration. What was it like to storm the beaches of Normandy with an M1 Garand on their backs? I know because I own one. What was it like for the Russian support troop to carry the M38 Mosin-Nagant through the winter? I understand because I own one and can compare it with an M91/30.

Some will tell you that "Millions of these were made. Who cares? They will be around forever." To that I answer, "Go buy an original Brown Bess. See what kind of money you have to spend or how common they are today." I believe the last time I researched it 12,000,000 were made over a span of about 120 years. Today, few survive in near original configuration compared to the number manufactured. War, time, weather, disaster, children destroying, and sporterizing have all taken their toll.

One of the biggest reasons people sporterize is to make a cheap hunting rifle. Except for a few military rifles most were never designed to be tremendously accurate, at least not to the need of a hunter. Most were designed to hit a man sized target center mass at several hundred meters. That is it! To attempt to squeeze tremendous accuracy out of most is like trying to squeeze Corvette performance out of a Chevette. Not really practical.

As a history buff I say that sporterizing military rifles = BAD! As a free market Libertarian I say "You bought it, do with it as you will." That comes with a caveat that I hope everyone deep down has a respect for the past and finds within themselves a duty to preserve what can be preserved. Not contrary to the free market but using it to the best.

Regards,

Doug

 

[sloughfoot]

It's your property. I don't get to tell you what to do with it. I have made my mistakes in the past. You will make your mistakes.

This is still America. Anything else is fascism and an infringement on you.

Screw em. Do what you want with your property.

 

[ryknoll3]

Sporterizing seems like a good idea when the guns are plentiful. Right now, Mosins are everywhere. Even with that, the price has almost doubled what they were a couple years ago. (Aimsurplus had them for $69.99) You'd probably regret it later when the guns are more scarce. Back in the day, people used the guns for hunting, weren't that interested in collecting, and milsurps were plentiful and cheap, as well as not as desirable.

Now, when I see a sporterized 1903 Springfield or Enfield, it's sad to see, because those rifles are much harder to find now, especially for a decent price.

Of course it is your rifle, and you should do with it what makes it work best for you, but will you be happy with the decision in 10 years when they're hard to find?

ETA: You can get a hunting rifle pretty doggone cheap if that's what you're looking for, too. A Savage Axis can be had in a common hunting caliber for around 3 bills.

 

[Cj52racers]

Sporterizing seems like a good idea when the guns are plentiful. Right now, Mosins are everywhere. Even with that, the price has almost doubled what they were a couple years ago. (Aimsurplus had them for $69.99) You'd probably regret it later when the guns are more scarce. Back in the day, people used the guns for hunting, weren't that interested in collecting, and milsurps were plentiful and cheap, as well as not as desirable.

Now, when I see a sporterized 1903 Springfield or Enfield, it's sad to see, because those rifles are much harder to find now, especially for a decent price.

Of course it is your rifle, and you should do with it what makes it work best for you, but will you be happy with the decision in 10 years when they're hard to find?

ETA: You can get a hunting rifle pretty doggone cheap if that's what you're looking for, too. A Savage Axis can be had in a common hunting caliber for around 3 bills.

I agree, and for what it would cost to add a nice poly stock and scope to a Mosin, you are in the same range as a Savage Axis or a Ruger American. And, these will have new barrels. If you want to sporterize a Mosin, no one is going to stop you, but there are other options for around the same price range.

 

[247survivalmindset]

Haha! I knew this would get some people fired up! I love it. Honestly though, thank you for all of your input, those are all great points. I agree that anything with a chance of having been war issue is out of the question. I am more looking at putting something like a late model mosin in a Bluegrass stock and putting on a scope mount. I try to do this with anything I want to modify: All modifications should be easily reversed and never destroy/ get rid of the original parts. I have done this with a marlin model 60 and a Remington 870. Any more thoughts?

 

[sloughfoot]

Haha! I knew this would get some people fired up! I love it. Honestly though, thank you for all of your input, those are all great points. I agree that anything with a chance of having been war issue is out of the question. I am more looking at putting something like a late model mosin in a Bluegrass stock and putting on a scope mount. I try to do this with anything I want to modify: All modifications should be easily reversed and never destroy/ get rid of the original parts. I have done this with a marlin model 60 and a Remington 870. Any more thoughts?

I had no dea that this is what you had in mind for your mil-surp. To do this will forever destroy the heritage of this fine rifle.

I am shocked. How dare you?

 

[whitetailbowhunter]

I agree that I hate seeing sporterized old combat rifles on the market. It's my choice not to buy them, and I don't, but it's like a piece of history has just vanished.

 

[247survivalmindset]

If you are being sarcastic, that's funny. If you are actually serious, please explain to me how I am "destroying the heritage of this fine rifle". I said I would make no permanent changes and I would keep all original parts to reassemble it IF I ever sell it. Also, "fine rifle"? These were put together by drunken communists who later took them all apart, threw the parts in random bins, then slapped them together regardless of part number or proof mark, and after Ivan was finished with these "fine rifles", they were shoved full of cosmaline and stored in a salt cave for half a century. And those were the valuable war time relics that I specifically said I wouldn't touch.

 

[rob63]

You can do what you want, but I guess I am a little confused by the fact that you want something "put together by drunken communists who later took them all apart, threw the parts in random bins, then slapped them together" as the starting point for your project.

The first advice was the best advice, get one that is already sporterized. You can find a nice mauser that has been sporterized for not much more money than what a mosin will cost you and then you would end up with a much nicer sporter. I like mosin's, but there isn't much you can do to them that will make one as nice as a mauser. I'm not really arguing that you save history, although that is a nice too, but simply recommending a path that leads to a nicer end product for roughly the same amount of money.

 

[247survivalmindset]

That is an excellent idea, I agree, and one I had never considered before. The point of my question was what the problem would be with temporarily changing one over with an eventual goal of putting it back to its original state. And specifically referring to a non WWII model Mosin. My comment about the history of that rifle was directed toward sloughfoot. But people do this constantly with AK-47s and nobody bats an eye. Why?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

That is an excellent idea, I agree, and one I had never considered before. The point of my question was what the problem would be with temporarily changing one over with an eventual goal of putting it back to its original state. And specifically referring to a non WWII model Mosin. My comment about the history of that rifle was directed toward sloughfoot. But people do this constantly with AK-47s and nobody bats an eye. Why?

My guess is that it's because AK-47s are still being made?