State has stolen our property rights...

[Carmelbythecorn]

Seems to me that the State has stolen our personal property rights out from under us by the imposition of the real estate tax.

With that tax, we never really "own" our property outright, even if we no longer have a loan, because we have an ongoing tax obligation. Don't pay your real estate taxes and eventually your property gets seized, sold and your taxes are paid. You may get what's left over (if any) but you are without your property. You can't even opt-out of the services provided via the taxes.

These rights were taken without a whimper, without a 'shot' fired (so to speak).

Your thoughts?

 

[CBR1000rr]

It's a process. We generally think in terms of 5 to 10 years while most think only about right now. The government thinks in 50 - 100 year blocks. Imaging if you were to make a decision that your great grand child is going to do or be something in particular starting when you are 18 years old. Then every move you make for the remainder of your life is geared towards ensuring this happens.

The property tax, among others, is simply a stepping stone.

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

It's a process. We generally think in terms of 5 to 10 years while most think only about right now. The government thinks in 50 - 100 year blocks. Imaging if you were to make a decision that your great grand child is going to do or be something in particular starting when you are 18 years old. Then every move you make for the remainder of your life is geared towards ensuring this happens.

The property tax, among others, is simply a stepping stone.

A stepping stone toward property confiscation?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How would you fund constitutionally mandated public schools?

Would you then raise the state income tax?

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

How would you fund constitutionally mandated public schools?

Would you then raise the state income tax?

I'm curious Kirk, do you agree or disagree with my assertion?

That Is a possible solution. Or sales tax (actually would be fairer) because all would pay something.

 

[Bunnykid68]

How would you fund constitutionally mandated public schools?

Would you then raise the state income tax?

That would be more fair then charging people arbitrary amounts on their homes, but then you have the people who pay no state income tax.

Also, if you homeschool your children you can get your property taxes lowered. My parents have not had kids in school for some time now but they still have to pay, not to mention those that have no children ever.

Get rid of public schools seems like the appropriate answer though.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

There isn't a "fair" mechanism to fund government, that is, a mechanism that the majority of citizens will see as being "fair".

As to CBR1000rr's comments about governments being "far-seeing", what a laugh! Most politicians can't see past their next election, and, to be charitable, most bureaucrats can't see past their next promotion or their retirement. If you think government "creep" is PLANNED, I've got some land in Unincorporated America for sale.

 

[Bunnykid68]

There isn't a "fair" mechanism to fund government, that is, a mechanism that the majority of citizens will see as being "fair".

As to CBR1000rr's comments about governments being "far-seeing", what a laugh! Most politicians can't see past their next election, and, to be charitable, most bureaucrats can't see past their next promotion or their retirement. If you think government "creep" is PLANNED, I've got some land in Unincorporated America for sale.

There is only one fair way. If the government needs 300 million dollars, everyone ponies up $1, regardless of your status or what you earn or what you are worth.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'll play devil's advocate: you make a choice when you decide to buy or accept ownership of property. Before buying the property, you know that you will be taxed based on the value of the property. Nobody forces you to purchase. Nobody forces you to retain ownership. It is a choice, as a citizen, you make of your own free will.

You could just as easily choose to rent. Of course the taxes in the property is included in the rent somewhere. But when your contract terminates, you may up and leave without any further obligation. If you do not like the way your taxes are spent in a jurisdiction, you may vote with your feet and take up residence rather easily.

Now, having said all that, it sucks that if you own a piece of property, it can be taken from you should you be unable to pay your taxes. But maintaining even a small government costs money and everybody will always have an excuse for why they shouldn't be taxed.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Seems to me that the State has stolen our personal property rights out from under us by the imposition of the real estate tax.

With that tax, we never really "own" our property outright, even if we no longer have a loan, because we have an ongoing tax obligation. Don't pay your real estate taxes and eventually your property gets seized, sold and your taxes are paid. You may get what's left over (if any) but you are without your property. You can't even opt-out of the services provided via the taxes.

These rights were taken without a whimper, without a 'shot' fired (so to speak).

Your thoughts?

Just for the record property taxes existed in 14 of the 15 states in 1796. A great many of the founding fathers were still alive, and would have been paying said taxes.

So to say it goes beyond their thinking of liberty, would be a stretch.

 

[MikeDVB]

Decrease property tax and increase *sales* tax? Perhaps?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Decrease property tax and increase *sales* tax? Perhaps?

That would kill our current economy.

(which is on life support already)

 

[Bunnykid68]

That would kill our current economy.

(which is on life support already)

Only because half of the populace pays no income tax

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Just for the record property taxes existed in 14 of the 15 states in 1796. A great many of the founding fathers were still alive, and would have been paying said taxes.

So to say it goes beyond their thinking of liberty, would be a stretch.

I think the "Inheritance Tax" whereby the State takes a portion of an estate (that's already been repeatedly taxed) would be more abhorrent to the Founders.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Decrease property tax and increase *sales* tax? Perhaps?

Does it really matter where it comes from? Ever growing government is always in need of new and ever larger revenue streams. Shrinking government is the only way to reduce the burden on everybody.

 

[MikeDVB]

That would kill our current economy.

(which is on life support already)

Increasing income tax would do about the same thing - but the catch here is that they tend to more heavily tax the middle class than the upper class(es)... Sales tax is uniform across the board, but I suppose the poorer you are, the more it would affect you.

Then again, most that are poor (that I know, or I am around) are on welfare, food stamps, etc...

 

[Bunnykid68]

Increasing income tax would do about the same thing - but the catch here is that they tend to more heavily tax the middle class than the upper class(es)... Sales tax is uniform across the board, but I suppose the poorer you are, the more it would affect you.

Then again, most that are poor (that I know, or I am around) are on welfare, food stamps, etc...

Are you really claiming that the higher class is paying a lower percentage than the middle class? Stats?

 

[J_Wales]

.

Secession anyone?

 

[Bunnykid68]

.

Secession anyone?

If only.....

 

[HeadlessRoland]

How would you fund constitutionally mandated public schools?

Would you then raise the state income tax?

Sales tax increase. I'd settle for 10%+ if property tax disappeared, permanently.

That would kill our current economy.

(which is on life support already)

With all due respect, I find no Constitutional mandate that I support the economy of the State.

It's really just a swap, zero sum, maybe a little less, but that will encourage our legislators to spend wisely,
and to be good conservators of the funds we grant them. I do not understand how this could ever be made
into a meteoric the-sky-is-falling situation.