Stop/start engines?

[x10]

I don't think the claim of saving fuel is in contention but the overall value to the customer. If your someone like me who keeps a car for infinity (or until a deer does it in) does the increased maintenance cost and increased complexity justify the change.

Before you argue, complexity and increased parts count will reduce the reliability while increasing the cost, and at the end of the day the customer pays for it. If you were offered something like the chevy cruze with everything but the essential's stripped off of it, and I mean the essentials, ALA 1976 type car. Power steering, windshield wipers, seats, and heater ect. and you could get it for $7k Vs. the 2017 cruze with airbags, a/c, start/stop, ect. ect. for $23k

Shouldn't you be given the choice????????

 

[SMiller]

Well they are moving down to smaller engines but they are more commonly on larger engine vehicles. Naturally it saves on any engine. It just saves more on bigger engines. That is why its more common on larger engines.




Check for a software switch in your options. I don't drive/buy GM vehicles so I don't know about the specifics of your car.

But you claimed there would be a switch, you said this not I.

 

[melensdad]

But you claimed there would be a switch, you said this not I.

No. Actually you should go back and more carefully read what I wrote. I said every car I've driven had the ability to be switched off.

 

[SMiller]

No. Actually you should go back and more carefully read what I wrote. I said every car I've driven had the ability to be switched off.

Nope still not what you said but here, I quoted what you DID say...


"You are speculating that the choice for the driver flip it's off switch will be removed but you have no evidence"

You speak of evidence and speculation yet it seems YOU are the one doing just that...

 

[melensdad]

Nope still not what you said but here, I quoted what you DID say...


"You are speculating that the choice for the driver flip it's off switch will be removed but you have no evidence"

You speak of evidence and speculation yet it seems YOU are the one doing just that...

Actually this is what I wrote, in full context:

Depends upon the vehicle and how the manufacturers programmed it. But every Start/Stop enabled car that I've driven and/or own has a switch that allows you to override the feature if needed.

Mine will switch the engine off while 'parked' and waiting with the engine on ... then switch the engine back on if the AC compressor is needed or the heater is needed.

Then I replied later with this:

"You are speculating that the choice for the driver flip it's off switch will be removed but you have no evidence"

And then also stated this:

Check for a software switch in your options. I don't drive/buy GM vehicles so I don't know about the specifics of your car.

You then said this:

But you claimed there would be a switch, you said this not I.

So it is very clear that I never said that all of them would have a mechanical switch. I did indicate that some might have a software setting to switch it off. And its also very clear that I said every car I've ever driven with that feature has had the ability to be switched off. It is certainly possible that some may not allow it at some point but market forces will, if people refuse to buy cars with the feather, dictate that the ability to switch it off is available.

I did not realize they are putting that technology on so many small engines now, it is more common than it was just 2 years ago (my last 2 vehicle purchases are model years 2014 and 2015). So I was partially wrong about the commonality of the technology but in checking it still does appear to be more common on bigger engines but clearly is moving to smaller engines pretty fast.

Not sure why you are trying to make some sort of federal case out of a car feature. Either buy a car with it or not. Its a good feature that works. But if you don't want it then eliminate the cars from your search that have it and buy something else. But don't make statements about what I say when you are so easily proven wrong.

 

[jkaetz]

I don't think the claim of saving fuel is in contention but the overall value to the customer. If your someone like me who keeps a car for infinity (or until a deer does it in) does the increased maintenance cost and increased complexity justify the change.

Before you argue, complexity and increased parts count will reduce the reliability while increasing the cost, and at the end of the day the customer pays for it. If you were offered something like the chevy cruze with everything but the essential's stripped off of it, and I mean the essentials, ALA 1976 type car. Power steering, windshield wipers, seats, and heater ect. and you could get it for $7k Vs. the 2017 cruze with airbags, a/c, start/stop, ect. ect. for $23k

Shouldn't you be given the choice????????

you are correct on all your points. Only time will tell us if the start stop stuff hinders longevity. My guess is other emissions related things will cause issues before start stop.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If you were offered something like the chevy cruze with everything but the essential's stripped off of it, and I mean the essentials, ALA 1976 type car. Power steering, windshield wipers, seats, and heater ect. and you could get it for $7k Vs. the 2017 cruze with airbags, a/c, start/stop, ect. ect. for $23k

Shouldn't you be given the choice????????

I'm honestly curious where you got the $16k difference in price even more than why power steering is an essential.

 

[jkaetz]

And just for fun, 7k in 1976 is about 30k in 2017.

And if you were thinking a modern car could cost less, you can again thank the .gov for all the required dummy features on current cars pushing the prices up higher than they could be for a "basic" car.

 

[melensdad]

And just for fun, 7k in 1976 is about 30k in 2017.

And if you were thinking a modern car could cost less, you can again thank the .gov for all the required dummy features on current cars pushing the prices up higher than they could be for a "basic" car.

Not just the .gov While I blame the .gov for much of the price inflation of cars there are consumer choices too. Airbags originally were on the driver's side ... consumers demanded passenger side air bags. And then multiple air bags. Disk brakes, now universal. Power windows are a consumer driven price increase. Ditto automatic transmissions, although those have gotten so go that they often can exceed the fuel economy of manual transmission.

 

[jkaetz]

Not just the .gov While I blame the .gov for much of the price inflation of cars there are consumer choices too. Airbags originally were on the driver's side ... consumers demanded passenger side air bags. And then multiple air bags. Disk brakes, now universal. Power windows are a consumer driven price increase. Ditto automatic transmissions, although those have gotten so go that they often can exceed the fuel economy of manual transmission.

Consumer driven is giving people what they want though. That is what should determine new "standard" upgrades, not an insurance lobbies or government official. By 2020 all cars will have automatic forward breaking due to an "agreement" between the nhtsa and manufacturers. Likely another insurance driven decision.

 

[melensdad]

Consumer driven is giving people what they want though. That is what should determine new "standard" upgrades, not an insurance lobbies or government official...

I agree.

I don't think I ever advocated for anything other than consumer choice.

The fact that I like start/stop does not mean I think it should be mandatory. I never indicated it should be. Ditto multiple air bags. Ditto anti-lock brakes. Ditto power windows. etc. etc.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Inflation adjusted:

1976 Ford Pinto sedan (base):$13,317.94
1978 Chevy Chevette (base): $14,272.00

2017 Ford Fiesta (base): $13,660
2017 Chevy Spark (base): $13,875

 

[jkaetz]

I agree.

I don't think I ever advocated for anything other than consumer choice.

The fact that I like start/stop does not mean I think it should be mandatory. I never indicated it should be. Ditto multiple air bags. Ditto anti-lock brakes. Ditto power windows. etc. etc.

I agree with your agreement as well. Now go become the president of a big car company and make the cars we all want.