Stopping a fight

[EvilKidsMeal]

okay so i was driving around one time and saw these 2 young kids verbally arguing and one punched the other kid in the shoulder pretty hard. it never got any worse than that they looked like friends. just a little disagreement i would guess but it got me wondering about this.

say you're driving around and you witness a fight. okay simple fight not so bad, i would probably drive on. but how bout if the guy is on top of another guy and really beating the crap outta him, to the point where the other guy is completely defenseless and on the verge of very serious injury or worse, yet the beating is not stopping

the number one thing to do is call the police immediately. no question about it.
but seeing as the police are usually a few minutes away what would you do? i would feel the need to intervine, but i think at this point in the beating yelling would do no good.
so if you really feel like this guy is in serious need of help would you pull your gun and try to stop it?
my biggest concern with this however is what do you do when the police show up and see your gun? but i think it would be really hard to stand by and watch this guy get the life beat out of him and not do anything.

(and please keep in mind the phrases i highlighted so that this doesn't turn into a "you have no right to do that" or "call the police first" discussion)

 

[Mr.JAG]

Definitely wouldn't pull a gun to stop a fight.

Honestly, I tend to survive (and this is on levels) by avoiding confrontation that doesn't directly involve me. This means I stay out of other people's business. Again, I do this on all levels: I don't to enter a verbal argument, I don't interject my opinions into a conversation I'm not in, and etc (internet forums excluded of course! ). Basically, I purposely stay below the radar.

Now, given the situation described I can't sit here and say I would remain evil by "allowing evil". I would stay in my vehicle, call the police, and alert the people fighting that I have done such. I would HOPE that would be enough to get the BG to take off (this is a "help the victim" move, and not "get justice" move).

So many possibilities with your scenario. If you intervene too much, you may be putting yourself into a situation where you may NEED to use your firearm. This is a possibility I try to avoid at all times.

If you actually DID use your firearm, how would the legal mess go down? Did you have a legal duty to retreat? Was your use of force justifiable? Will the cops show up and think YOU are the BG? etc etc.

 

[Josh Ward]

Two people I don't know??? Its none of my buisness.....call the police and enjoy the show....

 

[9mm Luger]

The most I am going to do is call the police. I'm defiantly not going to involve myself with a firearm and pay the consequences later in court over someone I don't even know.

 

[shibumiseeker]

The guy on top was just mugged by the guy on the bottom and got the advantage.

The sister of the guy on top was raped by the guy on the bottom.

The guy on the bottom worked for AIG and all of the guy on top's savings are gone.

The guy on the bottom worked for TSA and groped the guy on top's kid.

The guy on the bottom was a drunk driver who just got out of jail after spending six months in lockup for killing the guy on top's wife and kid when he was driving blind drunk.

The two guys are in a domestic relationship having a fight and the moment you do something to the guy on top the guy on the bottom turns on you and starts beating the tar out of you.

...

You intervene physically in something you don't know about? I can't say I never would, but I'd need a more compelling reason to do so.

 

[furbymac]

Definitely wouldn't pull a gun to stop a fight.

Honestly, I tend to survive (and this is on levels) by avoiding confrontation that doesn't directly involve me. This means I stay out of other people's business. Again, I do this on all levels: I don't to enter a verbal argument, I don't interject my opinions into a conversation I'm not in, and etc (internet forums excluded of course! ). Basically, I purposely stay below the radar.

Now, given the situation described I can't sit here and say I would remain evil by "allowing evil". I would stay in my vehicle, call the police, and alert the people fighting that I have done such. I would HOPE that would be enough to get the BG to take off (this is a "help the victim" move, and not "get justice" move).

So many possibilities with your scenario. If you intervene too much, you may be putting yourself into a situation where you may NEED to use your firearm. This is a possibility I try to avoid at times.

If you actually DID use your firearm, how would the legal mess go down? Did you have a legal duty to retreat? Was your use of force justifiable? Will the cops show up and think YOU are the BG? etc etc.

in indiana there is no duty to retreat that i have ever seen.
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

 

[ShelbyCo.]

Its really hard to say what one would really do in this scenario....call police...yes. Any more than that would depend on the situation....if you know it. Young man on top and elderly man on bottom?? We could go on forever with scenarios but dont know if I would do much more than call police and keep a safe but close position incase I had to intervene. Good discussion though makes you think!

 

[Mr.JAG]

in indiana there is no duty to retreat that i have ever seen.
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

Now that is interesting... It is worded in a way that would might *allow* force in the situation at question, but I still don't trust it. (or rather, I don't trust lawyers/judges/juries)

 

[NIFT]

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

This excerpt of IC 35-41-3-2 is correct. The OP wanted to know his legal standing if intervening with deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury to a third person, presumably outside the home. According to Indiana Penal Code, he may do so legally. The catch is "reasonably believes...."

However, should one elect to intervene with deadly force in such a "reasonable" situation, the repercussions will still be extensive and severe. It won't be like on TV or in the movies where the good guy tells the cops about the heroic deed, keeps his gun, and goes home to life as usual!

 

[Que]

The guy doesn't have a gun, so why would you need one? If it was absolutely necessary I could see myself getting involved, but if I'm bold enough to get into something I know nothing about, I should be bold enough to go fists-to-fists if need be. If he pulls a gun, then that's another story, otherwise why would I take a gun to a fist fight?

 

[ironjaw]

The guy doesn't have a gun, so why would you need one? If it was absolutely necessary I could see myself getting involved, but if I'm bold enough to get into something I know nothing about, I should be bold enough to go fists-to-fists if need be. If he pulls a gun, then that's another story, otherwise why would I take a gun to a fist fight?

well if SE walked up on you and I fighting and we didn't have a gun then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't step in without one......I've heard size does matter, and he's definetly not in our weight class!

 

[Phil502]

Always cover your bases....shoot them both!

 

[shibumiseeker]

The guy doesn't have a gun, so why would you need one? If it was absolutely necessary I could see myself getting involved, but if I'm bold enough to get into something I know nothing about, I should be bold enough to go fists-to-fists if need be. If he pulls a gun, then that's another story, otherwise why would I take a gun to a fist fight?

Some people fight for sport. Some people fight to win no matter what it takes.

 

[ironjaw]

Always cover your bases....shoot them both!

it is a good thing to always have a 'drop' gun<------purple

 

[Pocketman]

Been there, done that. Called police and shouted at assailants (2 on 1) to knock it off, which they did. Police showed up a few minutes later and worked things out. Not saying it will always happen this way.

I did not get physically involved, kept my distance and did not display a weapon.

I think I saw a similar INGO post a couple of months ago where a guy in Fort Wayne had such an experience?

 

[jbombelli]

I'd call the cops. Beyond that, it's not my fight. I don't know who's the good guy or who's the bad guy, so I'll just sit and watch and be a witness later.


As far as not pulling a weapon in a fight?


Man Punched In Face During Basketball Game Dies - West Palm Beach News Story - WPBF West Palm Beach

Family mourns Boca man punched, killed near Miami club over a cigarette

UPDATE: Man punched in fight dies, 1 arrested - KLTV 7 News Tyler, Longview, Jacksonville |

Orange County man punched in face, dies | abc7.com

Man dies after getting punched in face, suspect charged - WBTV 3 News, Weather, Sports, and Traffic for Charlotte, NC-

I found these in just 1 minute of searching google. Keep this in the back of your mind if someone comes at you with only his fists. A lot of "tough" people end up dead from a punch or two. Personally, I'm not going to chance it. If someone is attacking me and they don't have a weapon, I'm pulling a knife and cutting them off of me. If they do have a weapon, I'm pulling a gun. Whatever happens later, happens later. At least I'll be alive to see it.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

This excerpt of IC 35-41-3-2 is correct. The OP wanted to know his legal standing if intervening with deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury to a third person, presumably outside the home. According to Indiana Penal Code, he may do so legally. The catch is "reasonably believes...."

However, should one elect to intervene with deadly force in such a "reasonable" situation, the repurcussions will still be extensive and severe. It won't be like on TV or in the movies where the good guy tells the cops about the heroic deed, keeps his gun, and goes home to life as usual!

okay now i never said anything about using deadly force. unless it was the last resort. i knew in IN deadly force can be justified in protecting a third person from being killed. that is why i wondered on this.

and once again this isn't a simple fight here this is a man being beaten possibly to death. call the cops yes we covered that. scream, yell, honk your horn, yes we covered that. but part of the question was; what if that doesn't work?

i personally would find it very hard to sit and watch this happen like some of you have stated. i would have a hard time living with myself if the guy died and i knew i could hav done something.

 

[Eddie]

1. Call the cops.
2. Take a deep breath.
3. Yell as loud as you can "Run! Its the Poe-leese!"

Should end the fight without you having to get physically involved.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Been there, done that. Called police and shouted at assailants (2 on 1) to knock it off, which they did. Police showed up a few minutes later and worked things out. Not saying it will always happen this way.

I did not get physically involved, kept my distance and did not display a weapon.

I think I saw a similar INGO post a couple of months ago where a guy in Fort Wayne had such an experience?

yea but this sounded like a simple fight. you said "they" knocked it off, which to me implies they both knew what was going on. i was talking about a guy being beaten defenselessand on the verge of either being hospitalized for a very long time, or in the local morgue.
good thing screaming and yelling stopped the one you witnessed, that works a large majority of the time, but again what if it didnt work?

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

This excerpt of IC 35-41-3-2 is correct. The OP wanted to know his legal standing if intervening with deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury to a third person, presumably outside the home. According to Indiana Penal Code, he may do so legally. The catch is "reasonably believes...."

However, should one elect to intervene with deadly force in such a "reasonable" situation, the repurcussions will still be extensive and severe. It won't be like on TV or in the movies where the good guy tells the cops about the heroic deed, keeps his gun, and goes home to life as usual!

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

i would imagine that if a guy is beaten to a bloody pulp and taken to the hospital unconcious in critical condition that it would be pretty easy to state that you "reasonably" believed his life was in danger. and also the serious bodily injury has already been covered, so in that situation according to indiana law i would be able to keep my gun and go on with life as usual.
and this isn't about being a hero. anyone who thinks they can be a hero because they have a gun has the wrong idea. they're goin to get themselves into lots of crap.
no this is about saving a man from being beaten to death out of your own good consciense.