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Stopping a fight
- Thread starter EvilKidsMeal
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im glad im not the only one who feels this way.
Even if the guy on top is the good guy, you might be stopping him from making the biggest mistake of his life.
Deadly force isn't necessary, but if I feel like I can handle somebody and the situation calls for it, I'll physically remove them.
For the majority of situations though, I would do as most have said here... I'm no hero.
Deadly force isn't necessary, but if I feel like I can handle somebody and the situation calls for it, I'll physically remove them.
For the majority of situations though, I would do as most have said here... I'm no hero.
That is true; you did not specifically ask about using deadly force, but it was implied, when you said:
"so if you really feel like this guy is in serious need of help would you pull your gun and try to stop it?"
I also agree that I would have a hard time living with myself if I stood by and watched someone be beaten to the point of serious bodily injury (which includes death) and not pull a gun if I had one. If intervening by pulling a gun, however, one had better be prepared to use deadly force, and the repercussions will still be extensive and severe regardless of how legal, "reasonable," or justified.
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HereNthere
Plinker
While it is possible to be killed by a punch (as you've clearly shown), the risk of engaging in a fist fight or wrestling match while armed goes beyond that. You could easily find yourself incapacitated, either by a punch or a hold, and be disarmed by your assailant. At that point, your very life depends on that persons mercy. Not a position I wish to put myself in if I can avoid it.
A quick story: Back when I was in high school (i.e. - a freaking long time ago), a bunch of us kids were hanging around a McDonald's parking lot wasting time. This one kid was an 18 year old recent grad who was pretty much fully grown (about 6' 2" and 210 or so, and not flabby at all). Anyway, this guy was picking on an just generally messing with a little skinny kid who looked to be about 5' 8" and maybe 140. At some point, the big guy pushed the smaller kid hard enough to knock him down, and then turned his back on him. The kid got up, tapped him on the shoulder and smashed a right hand square on his temple. Knocked the bigger guy out like a light, with one punch. Turned out the kid had been in martial arts since he was like 5.
I guess my point is a.) don't under estimate your opponent and b.) always remember that your weapon can kill you as easily as anybody else if you lose control of it.
Que, I STRONGLY recommend you take a Force On Force class, many scenarios like these are covered.
It's a judgement call, but if I thought the guy was defenseless and in danger, then the guy not stopping would get a warning to stand down. If he did not heed that warning, we'd have a situation.
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Without knowing anything about the situation or knowing anyone involved I would call the police and stay out of it. Every situation is different though and I cant give just one answer that would cover every possible situation. If I were at all able to help I would.
96firephoenix
Master
deadly force is just where deadly force is needed. if someone is beating another person past unconsciousness, this is DF. protection of the beat-ee with a gun is justified.
whether it is "your fight" is up to you, but i would not be able to live with myself if I ignored a fight at 38th and illinois and then read in the paper that a beaten body was found at 38th and illinois. your call if you think you'd be able to sleep through the night.
whether it is "your fight" is up to you, but i would not be able to live with myself if I ignored a fight at 38th and illinois and then read in the paper that a beaten body was found at 38th and illinois. your call if you think you'd be able to sleep through the night.
The situation described is one that the guy on the bottom is being beat to an inch of his life. So with that situation there is no way I could live with myself if I did not get involved and try to get the other guy to stop. Of course call the LEOs, then try to break it up with your own bare hands. If the situation is bad enough and the guy on the bottom is completely defenseless and may die unless I do something, then I feel it is your civic duty to stop a life being taken.
quicksdraw
Expert
This in spades!
Many years ago, when I was young and stupid, I saw a guy beating the he** out of a woman. Being the idealistic type, I went to her rescue and pulled him off her. He started wailing on me, so I wailed back. The next thing I knew, she was hitting, scratching and biting me. Fortunately, some of my buddies came to my rescue before it got way out of hand (though I did need 7 stitches to sew my leg up where she bit a chunk out). When the cops got there and sorted it out, it turned out to be a domestic incident that was repeated regularly, whenever they had a few drinks in them.
That was about thirty years ago and I have never ever, since then, gone farther than to call the cops and observe until they arrived.
Since I haven't noticed a post that mentions civil liability... Behind every thug, dirtbag, and crackhead is a parent, baby-momma, sibling, or cousin who would like nothing better than to have a big payday at your expense, and there is an army of contingency-fee lawyers willing to help them file a civil suit. Even though you might not be criminally liable (based on the previous postings of IN law), the burden of proof in a civil suit is much lower. Plus, even if you win the case, the cost of defending yourself will be substantial. IMO, it's not worth the physical, psychological, and financial risk to intervene unless it's to protect myself, a loved one, or someone that I know very well.
First off, I try not to underestimate people. That's why I'll cut someone's a** off of me instead of trying to engage in a fistfight or wrestling match with them. I would shoot them, but at that range I prefer a knife for a couple of reasons. #1) I'm not going to miss them and put a round in some kid's head in the McDonald's down the street, and #2) if they stay off me they don't get hurt.
Second off, I try not to engage in fights at all. But sometimes it happens to people, and there's nothing they can do about it. They can't avoid it. Anybody who says you can ALWAYS avoid a fight has no idea what he's talking about in the real world. I'll always walk away; but I'll never turn my back on the bad guy and run.
Third, it's not so easy to just take a knife from someone intent on slicing you up with it. If you think it is, you're sadly mistaken. The stuff taught in most martial arts schools is bullsh*t when it comes to dealing with knifers. It will get you killed if you're going up against a knifer who has even HALF an idea of what he's doing with a knife. Most bad guys aren't Superman; I don't care how bad they are. Besides, if it's just that easy to take a weapon away from someone, I'll just take it back.
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I don't know why, but your reply made me chuckle.
cklein6576
Sharpshooter
agreed, lets call the cops and wait the average 17 minutes for them to show up.
I'm sort of with LP1 on this one. You may manage to keep yourself out of trouble legally but...if the past decade or so has taught us anything, it's that just about anyone can sue someone for what we may see as ridiculous and still walk out on top. In a way it reminds me of several civil cases throughout the country in which a burglar (or suspected burglar) is shot by a homeowner on his own property and the family of the would-be burglar ends up with a huge payout. Yes, it's ridiculous. No, it makes no sense whatsoever. But unfortunately, we've come to a point as a society where making a lot of money with the least amount of effort possible is endlessly glorified, regardless of the means.
So. All that to say, you're probably going to end up paying for it. Would I still get involved? Oh...probably. : )
So. All that to say, you're probably going to end up paying for it. Would I still get involved? Oh...probably. : )
The way I understand it is that a gun, used in self-defense of person and/or property, must be used in a 'pull, point-n-shoot' situation to be termed 'self-defense.' Anyone who pulls a gun and points it directly at someone, or simply pulls it or flashes it and lets others know you have it, can be prosecuted under 'intimidation' or 'threatening someone with a deadly weapon'.
Seeing a fight between 2 males along a street while driving by...I would dial 9-1-1.
Witnessing a woman being beaten by a man while driving by...got a male elementary teacher, along with the woman who was being attacked, killed in FW a few years ago (bad dude had a .44).
Seeing a fight between 2 males along a street while driving by...I would dial 9-1-1.
Witnessing a woman being beaten by a man while driving by...got a male elementary teacher, along with the woman who was being attacked, killed in FW a few years ago (bad dude had a .44).
The fight I described involved 3 guys, late teens - early twenties. It was over someone's sister. Not the serious beat someone to death scenario.
As LP1 posted, we live in a very litigious society. You can bet someone is going to want to sue you if you cause them or their family member bodily harm, even while protecting a third person. So, in answer to your question, yes I am going to get involved. Call the police and then attempt to break up the fight. That's just how I am. At risk here is what's this all about. Could be a couple of Irishmen having a good time. Could be the bad guys is the one getting bested. So don't just go charging in and don't shoot anybody. Don't be the one holding a gun when the LEOs show up.
I remember a case study in criminology 101 where a store detective shot and killed an assailant during a rape in the parking lot. It was deemed a "righteous" shooting. Could have been a legitimate couple having a good time with too much enthusiasm.
Just because a person is armed doesn't mean (s)he has to be a "lone ranger." If you feel you can safely intervene, go for it. Otherwise be a good witness.
interesting thread, however, anybody remember the gun owner that saved a woman from being stabbed to death by her ex-husband?
Wal-Mart Gun Policy Saves New Mexico Woman's Life
Wal-Mart Gun Policy Saves New Mexico Woman's Life
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