Suicide by Cop on Film

[devil07]

I missed any verbal commands the cops gave. Did they give her verbal commands? Not that it matters, just checking.

In the brief article at the original link, it stated that a mental evaluation team pleaded with her to drop the gun for an hour prior to the shooting.

 

[Gluemanz28]

It is easy for me to sit in my easy chair watching the video and thinking of what I would do. I don't think most of us would have the restraint without proper training that LEO goes through to keep calm in an elevated situation. I have had people ask me if I would shoot someone in the leg or arm instead of taking a lethal shot. I always tell them "This isn't the movies" if I pull my weapon it is for my protection or the protection of someone else and I will be attempting to stop the threat.

 

[beachhead40]

the camera is really zoomed in, is hard to say that there was not commands but the noise from that far I don't think would be heard its not like the camera next to the police.... Play stupid games Win stupid prizes

 

[churchmouse]

I think they got her.

 

[Bunnykid68]

the camera is really zoomed in, is hard to say that there was not commands but the noise from that far I don't think would be heard its not like the camera next to the police.... Play stupid games Win stupid prizes

Yep, the gunshots didnt even sound that loud now that you mention it

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Selfish POS. I'm talking about Ms. PajamaPants not the LEOs.

 

[Compatriot G]

Its much more shocking to see it in person.

Yes, it is. I've seen it once, 43 years ago. The images from that day are forever burned into my brain.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

don't really see the point of shooting her 40 times or continuing to fire as she is going down/is down...

I have never been in a situation like this but I am a duck hunter (I'm not comparing these two situations, hear me out)

I can tell you that anytime I get a shot on a group of ducks I go into another mode so to speak. I get tunnel vision and really only see the ducks and the front of my barrel. Adrenaline kicks in quickly and I don't feel any recoil and I don't even notice my partners shooting. Afterwards it doesnt even really feel like i shot. Same thing applies to duck hunting that the police are taught. Shoot until the target is down. Duck hunting you have three shots, one duck could take all three depending on circumstances.

I can see where it would be extremely easy to keep shooting without really realizing it. Its not that the cops were trigger happy and love killing, its part of a natural psychological/physiological response. As a hunter I have felt it (obviously not to this degree, that's a whole other level). 3 rounds feels like less than a second, so 3-4 seconds with the target still moving in some way, you do the math.

All made perfect sense to me. Good shoot.

And I am in no way saying I know what police officers go through in these situations, just making a logical explanation based on experiences I've had

 

[cmr13]

Right now I am reading "On Combat" by Grossman. If you are interested in learning about the "don't really see the point of shooting her 40 times", I really suggest reading this book. He doesn't defend the practice, rather looks into the psychology/physiology that can result in it. If you watch, the shooting all happens within 3 or 4 seconds. That's pretty quick, not much time for someone who's heart is racing trying to stop some stranger from killing some friend to decide she's been shot enough. According to Grossman, it's quite possible that no shooter realized anyone else was shooting.

I really suggest "On Combat". It is an eye opener for me, changes the way I see things like this, changes the way I view mass shootings and the conflicting reports immediately following the shootings.

I can see where it would be extremely easy to keep shooting without really realizing it. Its not that the cops were trigger happy and love killing, its part of a natural psychological/physiological response. As a hunter I have felt it (obviously not to this degree, that's a whole other level). 3 rounds feels like less than a second, so 3-4 seconds with the target still moving in some way, you do the math.

And keep in mind it's not just one police officer shooting, it's multiple. If they were there for an hour there might be 15 or more cops with their guns on her. So lets say it was 45 shots, that's only 3 apiece. Just wanted to add that to what the 2 people I quoted said.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I have never been in a situation like this but I am a duck hunter (I'm not comparing these two situations, hear me out)

I can tell you that anytime I get a shot on a group of ducks I go into another mode so to speak. I get tunnel vision and really only see the ducks and the front of my barrel. Adrenaline kicks in quickly and I don't feel any recoil and I don't even notice my partners shooting. Afterwards it doesnt even really feel like i shot. Same thing applies to duck hunting that the police are taught. Shoot until the target is down. Duck hunting you have three shots, one duck could take all three depending on circumstances.

I can see where it would be extremely easy to keep shooting without really realizing it. Its not that the cops were trigger happy and love killing, its part of a natural psychological/physiological response. As a hunter I have felt it (obviously not to this degree, that's a whole other level). 3 rounds feels like less than a second, so 3-4 seconds with the target still moving in some way, you do the math.

All made perfect sense to me. Good shoot.

And I am in no way saying I know what police officers go through in these situations, just making a logical explanation based on experiences I've had

Grossman says that hunters shooting live game and combatants in gunfights experience several of the same stress symptoms (auditory exclusion/amplification, time dilation, tunnel vision, etc). He says that these symptoms are generally not experienced by target shooters.

 

[noname1]

Walmart clearly lost a customer. I hope the officers are dealing with the situation well now.

 

[Trigger Time]

Grossman says that hunters shooting live game and combatants in gunfights experience several of the same stress symptoms (auditory exclusion/amplification, time dilation, tunnel vision, etc). He says that these symptoms are generally not experienced by target shooters.

Yep. One good way to break it is to scan for other threats. Look side to side.

 

[Dirtebiker]

It looked like that video was from inside a building...behind glass. I thought I could hear a PA but it was hard to tell.

It doesn't seem like that to me. I do hear something, like you said, that sounds like a p.a.. But I also hear what sounds like a helicopter, and the gunshots don't sound like they are muffled by glass, unless the shooters are right next to the building.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Some I'm sure do and I'm sure there were some high fives given. .

High fives? Really?
I sure hope not!

 

[DRob]

My sympathy is entirely with the officers who found themselves in that situation. That's a decision most gun owners will never have to make. Thank God!

 

[Cameramonkey]

This compels me to say big THANK YOU to Frank, VUPD, and all the other officers here. You guys shouldnt have to deal with crap like that. But thank you for putting up with the crazies for us.

I dont fault the officers. Replica or not, she was a perceived threat and deserved what she got. Id feel the same if it were real but unloaded (just as harmless in that moment). We dont need to lose any officers because somebody didnt want to harm an "innocent" with a toy that turned out to be real.

Now If she had a knife? That would be different. Prime opportunity for the beanbags, tazers, pepper balls, etc. as others mentioned.

 

[bluewraith]

I missed any verbal commands the cops gave. Did they give her verbal commands? Not that it matters, just checking.

The article after the video says they were in negotiations for an hour before the shooting.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

My sympathy is for everyone involved: the woman, the officers, and her family.

For the woman I have dealt with some people with mental illness. It isn't something that you can control, but you can look perfectly normal. I am going to transport someone tomorrow to receive their anti-psychotic medicine. This is a great person who is very kind - while medicated. I would not want to see what they can be like off of their medication but from what I know of him/her is a very decent person.

For the officers I see some of them maybe self reflecting for the rest of their lives. What if they had looked a little closer? What if they paid a little more attention to the gun? Gunning down a complete non-threat will probably bother some of them for the rest of their lives, whether she appeared a threat or not.

For her family their loss of a loved one would be horrible. Constant self reflection on what they could have done sooner or seeking help more forcefully. Plus the added simple loss itself.

All in all a bad day for everyone involved. I do hope those involved on all sides seek whatever help and comfort they may find from professional and religious comfort.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Gunning down a complete non-threat will probably bother some of them for the rest of their lives, whether she appeared a threat or not.

How was she a "complete non-threat"?

 

[stephen87]

one of those pics looks YUMMY! I'll let you guess which one

Yes.