SWAT invasion of innocent people's house here in Evansville, Indiana

[rmabrey]

The SWAT team is not responsible for their actions they were told to do it?

Are investigators not "everday" policeman?

Can an employer tell his employess to do illegal acts ?

I dont consider detectives to be everyday police men. They aren't out in their cars responding to calls all night long. SWAT guys are still out giving tickets, dealing with idiot drunks, etc

I still believe in a some cases no knock warrants are bull**** and will get someone killed, this one could very well have ended that way. However, they investigated, evidence led them to that home and they did their job. They were wrong, it happens. Cant really fault them for that. I still say the biggest mistake here is inviting the media.

 

[KLB]

Bolin said the SWAT team used its standard “knock and announce” procedure of knocking on the wall and repeating the words “police search warrant” three times before entering

They couldn't have tried very hard to be heard if the lady was sitting in the room watching TV with the door open.

 

[IndyDave1776]

They couldn't have tried very hard to be heard if the lady was sitting in the room watching TV with the door open.

Absolutely correct! It reminds me of the facetious comment in training with the Department of Correction regarding warning shots with escapees coming over the fence. The policy called for a shouted warning, a whistle warning, a warning shot, and finally shooting the inmate (with some allowance for time not permitting the shout and whistle). This led to the comment that in practice you shoot the inmate, yell 'stop!' and then fire a warning shot.

 

[Kedric]

Ludicrous and pathetic actions on the SWAT team's part....

Unfortunately not that surprising, these days. I also agree they must have tapped with their fingertip and whispered their announcement if an 18 year old sitting right there didn't hear them.

*sighs and shakes head* Hope they have a lawyer involved already. We feel safer when the police are around, right? Right?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Ludicrous and pathetic actions on the SWAT team's part....

Unfortunately not that surprising, these days. I also agree they must have tapped with their fingertip and whispered their announcement if an 18 year old sitting right there didn't hear them.

*sighs and shakes head* Hope they have a lawyer involved already. We feel safer when the police are around, right? Right?

Oh yes! It speaks volumes when you feel safer without the police than with them--and to think that moron Winnecke thinks they need an armored vehicle.

 

[thebishopp]

Eh, if it turns out they don't have a warrant ill change my opinion. Until then I cant fault them. Nobody is perfect. Inviting the Media was stupid and unnecessary. Second, Its not SWATs fault, they don't do the investigating, which by the way led them to an innocent persons home that they had no clue was innocent. They just do what they are told. SWAT guys are just your every day cops that give speeding tickets and so on, and they just happen to also be SWAT.

Groh.V Ramirez is an interesting read.

GROH V. RAMIREZ

 

[Titanium_Frost]

All warrants are potentially no knock now.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[ryknoll3]

They couldn't have tried very hard to be heard if the lady was sitting in the room watching TV with the door open.

I don't think the point is to give the homeowner time to get up from the couch and answer the door. It's more like pound on the door, yell "Search Warrant!" three times in rapid succession and bring on the door breaching tool of choice.

I've seen video of these rapid entries and they aren't giving time to answer the doorbell. Probably just a CYA thing so that if the homeowner where to defend against a baseless entry, they would have plenty of justification to turn them into swiss cheese. "Your honor, we announced ourselves as police with a warrant."

 

[thebishopp]

I dont consider detectives to be everyday police men. They aren't out in their cars responding to calls all night long. SWAT guys are still out giving tickets, dealing with idiot drunks, etc

I still believe in a some cases no knock warrants are bull**** and will get someone killed, this one could very well have ended that way. However, they investigated, evidence led them to that home and they did their job. They were wrong, it happens. Cant really fault them for that. I still say the biggest mistake here is inviting the media.

Investigation? 13 hours from start to finish. How much investigating do you think occurred? Any surveillance? Obviously not enough.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I don't think the point is to give the homeowner time to get up from the couch and answer the door. It's more like pound on the door, yell "Search Warrant!" three times in rapid succession and bring on the door breaching tool of choice.

I've seen video of these rapid entries and they aren't giving time to answer the doorbell. Probably just a CYA thing so that if the homeowner where to defend against a baseless entry, they would have plenty of justification to turn them into swiss cheese. "Your honor, we announced ourselves as police with a warrant."

That is not consistent with the story they gave earlier where the first notice was two flash bangs and then they busted in the door.

 

[Bunnykid68]

That is not consistent with the story they gave earlier where the first notice was two flash bangs and then they busted in the door.

As another member here is want to say, douchebaggery at its finest

 

[Titanium_Frost]

FYI: the story in the Courier & Press has been continually updated and the police/Winnecke administration are clearly in trying to cover their asses.

I applaud the C&P for actually doing some investigation and are trying to find the search warrant which every admin says is there, but its not where they usually are...

There is also another article written from interviews with local computer experts about just how freaking easy it is to steal an IP address from someone and make it look like you are posting from their address.

From the previous statements by EPD it looks like no one is safe in Evansville since they have every intention of doing it again. I know in my neighborhood alone there are sometimes 3 different unprotected networks I could log onto. Two from my mom's house and its pretty easy to drive around with a laptop and find dozens of unprotected networks. Not to mention the ease that someone could hack into a specific person's network if they wanted to set them up.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Guess it is a good thing the person that posted the threat didnt do it from one of the hotels off of their free wifi signal, hate to see that no knock raid go down.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Guess it is a good thing the person that posted the threat didnt do it from one of the hotels off of their free wifi signal, hate to see that no knock raid go down.

I would imagine we would be looking at a situation similar to Aurora, CO where dozens of innocent people would be subject to arrest and their electronics and 'papers' seized until proven innocent. I could name half a dozen businesses right now that have free unrestricted WiFi access with a good signal 50 or more yards from the building.

 

[Bunnykid68]

What is the law on the right to resist illegal entry by LE? There is some debate on the Courier page about it.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

What is the law on the right to resist illegal entry by LE? There is some debate on the Courier page about it.

It is nearly identical to our 'Stand your Ground/Castle Doctrine' laws but substitutes the words 'public servant' in.

It has a few more restrictions and qualifiers but in this scenario all it would take is a 'reasonable belief' that the entry was unlawful and that severe bodily harm would happen as a result of this invasion to be legally authorized to use deadly force against the police.

You decide if that seems reasonable to believe that two grenades coming in through your windows and door busted down seem likely that you will experience 'severe bodily harm or death' and then decide if having never committed a crime you would think that entry would be unlawful.

The entry doesn't have to BE unlawful, just a reasonable belief that it was.

 

[Bunnykid68]

That is what I was thinking, just wanted to clarify. On officer posting on the Courier keeps referrencing the Indiana Supreme court ruling saying However when you have a standing Supreme Court ruling as a precedent I wouldnt expect any changes in law enforcement anytime soon.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

It is NOT a standing precedent! The Ind SC cannot override the legislature!!!

 

[Bunnykid68]

It is NOT a standing precedent! The Ind SC cannot override the legislature!!!

Tell that to some of the officers that think it is because according to at least one that is how they will treat it at the time

 

[Bunnykid68]

FYI: the story in the Courier & Press has been continually updated and the police/Winnecke administration are clearly in trying to cover their asses.

I applaud the C&P for actually doing some investigation and are trying to find the search warrant which every admin says is there, but its not where they usually are...

There is also another article written from interviews with local computer experts about just how freaking easy it is to steal an IP address from someone and make it look like you are posting from their address.

From the previous statements by EPD it looks like no one is safe in Evansville since they have every intention of doing it again. I know in my neighborhood alone there are sometimes 3 different unprotected networks I could log onto. Two from my mom's house and its pretty easy to drive around with a laptop and find dozens of unprotected networks. Not to mention the ease that someone could hack into a specific person's network if they wanted to set them up.

Yes it has, I just read it again, they changed the part where they said if they had it to do over they would do it exactly the same way. Wish I had the original to see what else they have changed.