SWAT uses flashbang on sleeping 12-year-old girl

[CathyInBlue]

3. I've seen many a flashbang detonate up against drywall and I've never seen one do that.

Were any of them back-stopped by the body of a 12 year old sleeping girl?

 

[phylodog]

I've seen them back stopped against dry wall and they didn't do that. I'm certainly not trying to defend anyone or call anyone a liar but a flashbang did not cause the pictured damage to that drywall.

 

[TheReaper]

It was probably caused by a previous meth lab explosion.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I've seen them back stopped against dry wall and they didn't do that. I'm certainly not trying to defend anyone or call anyone a liar but a flashbang did not cause the pictured damage to that drywall.

I will defer to your experience and point out that the damage to the drywall being held up as an issue is analogous with writing up moving violations on a fleeing bank robber who killed a handful of people during the robbery.

There is plenty wrong with or without the hole in the wall.

 

[spearheadersarge]

^^^^^^^^^^

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

 

[phylodog]

I will defer to your experience and point out that the damage to the drywall being held up as an issue is analogous with writing up moving violations on a fleeing bank robber who killed a handful of people during the robbery.

There is plenty wrong with or without the hole in the wall.

Having been around this business and seen slanted/sensational reporting as much as I have, forgive me if when I see something as blatantly wrong as that photo I begin to question the validity of the other claims.

Not saying there aren't problems here, just not willing to be baited quite so easily. I'll stand by my earlier statements but as usual we have precious little information about what really took place.

 

[spearheadersarge]

"Not saying there aren't problems here, just not willing to be baited quite so easily. I'll stand by my earlier statements but as usual we have precious little information about what really took place."

Apparently neither did the investigating officers who conducted the raid! These so called "mistakes" are becoming all too frequent. SWAT should be reserved for hostage situations and individuals barricaded in secure locations. Why is it neccesary for a SWAT team to raid someone's home for drug posession? People should be screaming for SWAT Team restrictions! More innocents will perish until they do.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Having been around this business and seen slanted/sensational reporting as much as I have, forgive me if when I see something as blatantly wrong as that photo I begin to question the validity of the other claims.

Not saying there aren't problems here, just not willing to be baited quite so easily. I'll stand by my earlier statements but as usual we have precious little information about what really took place.

It sounds like we are on the same page.

 

[phylodog]

ALL SWAT TEAMS SHOULD BE LIT ON FIRE AND BURNED UNTIL THEY SMOLDER AS ASHES!!!!! DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!

 

[level.eleven]

Having been around this business and seen slanted/sensational reporting as much as I have, forgive me if when I see something as blatantly wrong as that photo I begin to question the validity of the other claims.

Not saying there aren't problems here, just not willing to be baited quite so easily. I'll stand by my earlier statements but as usual we have precious little information about what really took place.

Which holds more water? The media in this story or the police chief's "extensive" investigation that lit a child on fire - as he so quoted in the article. The point I am driving home is this. The cops blow so much crap about these raids that when forced to pick sides, for the public, the media wins.

Quit firebombing residences to find some weed and you may regain the public's trust. Until then, police are on level with used car salesmen. Scamming to "get some". Hell, read the ticket thread. I am supposed to trust you? Get a grip.

 

[IndyDave1776]

"Not saying there aren't problems here, just not willing to be baited quite so easily. I'll stand by my earlier statements but as usual we have precious little information about what really took place."

Apparently neither did the investigating officers who conducted the raid! These so called "mistakes" are becoming all too frequent. SWAT should be reserved for hostage situations and individuals barricaded in secure locations. Why is it neccesary for a SWAT team to raid someone's home for drug posession? People should be screaming for SWAT Team restrictions! More innocents will perish until they do.

My understanding is that the only thing he is really calling false is the idea of the flash-bang blasting a hole in a wall. I was satisfied that he had previously addressed the need for better general methods to have been used. If nothing else, I take comfort in the fact that his SWAT team has not had problems of this nature which lends much credibility to his assessment.

I agree absolutely that the wave of horses**t of sending in SWAT teams any time they think they may actually know the location of a fugitive or worse yet kicking in the door on the wrong house (which seems to be the specialty of the house with the EPD SWAT team) needs to stop immediately. Further, there are plenty of departments which seem too irresponsible to have them at all. I also agree that there needs to be an unwavering public demand to have this problem solved, now.

 

[Bunnykid68]

ALL SWAT TEAMS SHOULD BE LIT ON FIRE AND BURNED UNTIL THEY SMOLDER AS ASHES!!!!! DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!

Come on, now you are being absurd

 

[phylodog]

I don't recall asking for anyone's trust.

 

[Bunnykid68]

My understanding is that the only thing he is really calling false is the idea of the flash-bang blasting a hole in a wall. I was satisfied that he had previously addressed the need for better general methods to have been used. If nothing else, I take comfort in the fact that his SWAT team has not had problems of this nature which lends much credibility to his assessment.

I agree absolutely that the wave of horses**t of sending in SWAT teams any time they think they may actually know the location of a fugitive or worse yet kicking in the door on the wrong house (which seems to be the specialty of the house with the EPD SWAT team) needs to stop immediately. Further, there are plenty of departments which seem too irresponsible to have them at all. I also agree that there needs to be an unwavering public demand to have this problem solved, now.

Agreed. I think he should move to Evansville and be put in charge of our local Swat Team

 

[IndyDave1776]

Agreed. I think he should move to Evansville and be put in charge of our local Swat Team

I would welcome that in a huge way! He is one of those rare officers in the single-digit percentage that I can say I trust both ethically and in quality of performance.

I will also add that I find it disturbing that he is standing here taking it in the chin for trying to take a balanced appraisal of a situation which while not flattering to the police involved is not necessarily so damning as it may appear on the surface. Unfortunately, it is very polarizing and it reflects well on phylodog's character that he is trying to be as fair and honest as possible rather than simply circling up with the team.

 

[level.eleven]

I don't recall asking for anyone's trust.

Well then, you have no place serving the public. Trust is the core of every relationship.

Who do you serve? Do you care if those you say you serve trust you?

 

[phylodog]

Well then, you have no place serving the public. Trust is the core of every relationship.

Who do you serve? Do you care if those you say you serve trust you?

I have no control over whether or not the public I serve trusts me. They've turned that decision over to the media and the likes of Frank Straub long ago. I'll take my empty Internal Affaris folder as an indication that I've done a decent job.

 

[hondatech2k2]

This is a sad read. I wish things like this did not happen, but human error is abundant. I can only hope that the vast majority of LEO's have respect for civilians, and civilians for LEO's. There may come a day when the SHTF and LEO needs immediate backup, this might be in the form of an armed citizen. Or a civilian is in immediate need of help and has no means of protection available, which would come in the form of LEO. Accidents happen, and life can be a b***h. The level of respect between LEO and civilian should always be professional and courteous, however not always the case. In summary, LEO and civilian alike need to have it drilled in their heads that one CANNOT survive without the other and treat each other with respect.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm still trying to figure out the logic of throwing a flash bang into a suspected meth lab.

 

[John James]

I'm still trying to figure out the logic of throwing a flash bang into a suspected meth lab.

For the safety of the children, of course.