Tactical Response student injured in class

[mvician]

I love absolutes as much as anybody, BUT on an AR you cannot put the rifle on safe if the hammer isn't cocked. So, you can't put an AR that has a type 1 malfunction on safe. You also couldn't put it on safe if it fails to extract a spent casing from the chamber.

True, but...
If the selector won't go into "safe" then the rifle shouldn't go bang...but as your finger comes off the trigger you still should attempt to put the rifle on safe.

 

[lrahm]

Best wishes to him and a speedy recovery.

 

[Shay]

True, but...
If the selector won't go into "safe" then the rifle shouldn't go bang...but as your finger comes off the trigger you still should attempt to put the rifle on safe.

So you can't ALWAYS put the rifle on safe when you take your finger off the trigger. Some times it isn't mechanically possible and sometimes it isn't tactically practical.

I'd like to see this done in some Force on Force testing. If someone is holding onto your rifle and beating you about the head I'm going to guess that 99 times out of 100 the rifle doesn't get safed regardless what your training SOPs are.

 

[printcraft]

So you can't ALWAYS put the rifle on safe when you take your finger off the trigger. Some times it isn't mechanically possible and sometimes it isn't tactically practical.

I'd like to see this done in some Force on Force testing. If someone is holding onto your rifle and beating you about the head I'm going to guess that 99 times out of 100 the rifle doesn't get safed regardless what your training SOPs are.

I think people are second guessing this since it was "training" compared to a real life situation.

I training you get to second guess.
If anything it shows that during actual events you just might shoot yourself.
Anything might happen and you cannot control all possibilities no matter how much you train. You don't always need to get it just right, just get it "righter" than the other guy.

Mr. Murphy likes this post.

 

[MerKWorK]

I agree with the rifle ALWAYS being safed in a transition, with in reason. I know someone is just thinking up scenarios now on why "they" wouldn't be able to, it's just good practice. Simply just because this (foot incident) could happen. However, only transitioning because on an empty rifle seems closed minded. I could think of a couple scenarios where a pistol would be a better candidate than rifle, thus a transition. I think we get sucked into the whole open range mentality. But only one bullet in flesh injury out of 15,000 students firing like mad men in battle, thats impressive. I do think this is a testament to level of skill and professionalism that are practiced in Tactical Response classes!

 

[Steve MI]

some things guys are forgetting this there are times in MIL LEO or other worlds were the need to safe and hang a loaded a carbine and go to blasters for close contact shooting, other task such as operating gear coms etc... doors windows etc....

there is a time and place to teach it as well

there was AAR on LF by one of the students from that class a tore it to bits as well
it was an interesting read....

as the saying goes just because its dangerous doesn't mean it has to be

 

[Magnum]

I'm shocked it didn't do more damage to his foot!

 

[Fenway]

Link? I'm not seeing it there.

there was AAR on LF by one of the students from that class a tore it to bits as well
it was an interesting read....

 

[MerKWorK]

Yeah, but if it were a 5.56 it would have jumped all the way up his body and came out of the top of his head!

 

[Shay]

Yeah, but if it were a 5.56 it would have jumped all the way up his body and came out of the top of his head!

Or a .45 would have killed him and his offspring!

 

[jblomenberg16]

My mom used to always tell me to make sure I had clean underwear when I was going out right after I got my drivers license, just in case I was in an accident. She didn't want me to be embarrased if the EMT's and ER docs that were gonna be working on me found me wearing dirty drawers. It was a light hearted joke of course meant more to remind me to be careful.

So...looks like I'll add to the clean underwear rule, the "make sure you've had a recent pedicure" before you go to a firearm training class. I'd hate to have a picture of my gnarly toenails all over the internet.



Glad the damage was not more serious, and that we can discuss it and learn from it. I know that one of the things I've learned in classes is that a slung rifle usually points directly down at your toes. Looks like another reminder of that.

 

[Steve MI]

Link? I'm not seeing it there.

its been removed for some reason not sure

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Glad it was a minor injury. When you screw up with a rifle or shotgun it can get awfully messy. Glad his consequence was minor and just to himself and not his classmates.

Bet he NEVER forgets to safe the weapon when doing the Tommy Tactical bs from here on out.

"Hey, my toe is famous on the Internet."

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Oh, wait, almost forgot. Remember when I say guns can go bang even if fingers are not on triggers and everyone says "not on my guns and I've been shootin' raffle gons all my life" or "not on my gun gamer range"?

Well, see, I told ya and will keep telling ya.

 

[Fenway]

You lost me there Kirk.

 

[PeaShooter]

Think he meant "bang", not "back"

 

[GIJEW]

If you are taking your finger off of the trigger, the rifle goes on safe. No ifs, ands, or butts.

Did you mean "let go of the rifle"? suppose you're covering a hall way, alley, etc. where the enemy was at, and you expect more fire from there? Finger off the trigger & safety off is appropriate.
I haven't been to a "combat carbine" class for almost 30 years. Do they deal with different types of safeties--AK vs M14 vs AR/FAL/HK etc or are those different classes? (back in the day we transitioned to a new mag).
Regarding the wound I'm astonished his toe is still ATTACHED! The 7.62x39 wounds to arms and legs I've seen involved shattered bones, and limbs hemoraged/swollen like footballs--talk about the million $ wound.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Yes, bang.

It is an important lesson and TacRes is to be applauded for highlighting the incident so we can all learn from it.

 

[rhino]

Is there a way to read the article(s) without being a member of Facebook?

This reminds me of another reason why I prefer my AR to my AK. I can reach the selector on my AR so easily that if the it will turn to safe, I find that I put it there without thinking about it anymore when I'm doing things like transitions. With an AK, I can't reach the safety lever without releasing my firing grip. It's going to take me more repetitions than I want to do to make that action as ingrained as using the safety on my AR.

I'm also thinking that lowering the rifle, moving it alongside of your hip, and keeping control of it with your support hand seems a lot more appealing to me than it did before. Of course, you're not always going to have the luxury of being able to do that. Sometimes the rifle is going be pointing at your feet at least briefly.

This is a tough one. We strive to manage the inherent risks to the best of our ability. Safety "on" probably would have averted this injury, but ... mechanical safeties can fail too. Not letting the muzzle point at your body is a the "right" thing, be we know sometimes that is unavoidable as well.

 

[warangelcometh]

Wow, ouch ! I would have expected a lot more damage ?