Tariffs?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
    149
    And that's a quite good thing. Bringing back an industrial base to the US. I have no idea if the tariffs will do to the economy as a whole, but I can't disagree with Trump that domestic steel production is a national security issue as well as an economic one.

    I see it both ways. I understand having a means of production in the event to go on a war footing, but question the why tariffs are needed at this particular time. In the event that we did need to ramp up production, why wouldn't Canada and Mexico be of assistance (at least formerly)? The idea that we would need to ramp up production necessitates a fairly large conflict, approaching a world war. It's difficult to see us in that type of situation where both Canada and Mexico, were at a minimum neutral, and at worse hostile. And if the latter were true, there's no force in the Americas that could prevent us from either extorting or outright taking those means of production... and this doesn't account for how quickly we could convert domestic steel, used for other purposes, to military functions.

    The Trump tariffs, on the whole, I think are a very bad thing. It seems more likely we will enter into that long overdue recession, with none of the traditional means to pull ourselves out of it quickly (thanks to the tax cuts). If we hit a particularly bad economic downturn, that recession could easily turn into a full blown depression. It appears, at least to me, that we are being given short-term benefits for political gain, without looking at the long-term negative consequences.
     

    Hatin Since 87

    Bacon Hater
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2018
    11,534
    77
    Mooresville
    And that's a quite good thing. Bringing back an industrial base to the US. I have no idea if the tariffs will do to the economy as a whole, but I can't disagree with Trump that domestic steel production is a national security issue as well as an economic one.

    Exactly. We should never rely on another country for our “war-time” materials. Allies or not, we shouldn’t depend on anybody but ourselves. Not to mention the jobs it gives back to Americans. Win win
     

    Mark-DuCo

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 1, 2012
    2,291
    113
    Ferdinand
    There's another factor - now those HD's won't bear the coveted "made in the USA" label.


    All this trade war tariff crap is going to do is isolated us and turn us into the kid who never gets invited to the parties. China will replace America as the #1 superpower because we shot our self in the foot.

    The way I see it is half the parties we are invited to is because we provide all the drinks and food for the party, so it costs us more to attend the party than anyone else. Now Trump is saying hey we will come to your party, but we are only bringing as much as everyone else. We shouldn't always have to get the short end of the stick.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,541
    113
    Fort Wayne
    I’ve yet to see a loss from it... have you? Are we predicting one happening in the future, or have we experienced a loss already?

    Are you asking me personally?

    Yes, many people are experiencing losses already. ...like anyone owning (NYSE:HOG).

    They'll be a lot more. Expect over this summer to see lots of stories about sectors (e.g. ag, alcohol, clothing, auto) being hit hard.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,541
    113
    Fort Wayne
    The way I see it is half the parties we are invited to is because we provide all the drinks and food for the party, so it costs us more to attend the party than anyone else. Now Trump is saying hey we will come to your party, but we are only bringing as much as everyone else. We shouldn't always have to get the short end of the stick.

    It cost money to be cool. Sure, you have to supply booze, but you still have fun, right?


    I don't care how much it cost as long as in the end we have a net positive. Now we'll be stuck at home, and losing far more money. A recession, brought on and exacerbated, by a trade war isn't the right answer.
     

    DoggyDaddy

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    73   0   1
    Aug 18, 2011
    103,609
    149
    Southside Indy
    INGO is a puzzlement sometimes. On the one hand we have, "Put America first! Build the economy! Get rid of unfair trade agreements!" and then we have, "Not so fast. We need to continue to be the doormat AND piggy bank for the entire world or other countries might think we're meanies!" :scratch:
     

    Hatin Since 87

    Bacon Hater
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2018
    11,534
    77
    Mooresville
    Are you asking me personally?

    Yes, many people are experiencing losses already. ...like anyone owning (NYSE:HOG).

    They'll be a lot more. Expect over this summer to see lots of stories about sectors (e.g. ag, alcohol, clothing, auto) being hit hard.

    They were struggling before the tariffs, this is just the perfect excuse for people opposing tariffs to point to and use as their example.

    “Expect over this summer to see lots of stories”, so we are back to predictions. I think, much like when anything happens now days, we should wait until we have factual evidence before jumping to conclusions.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,541
    113
    Fort Wayne
    INGO is a puzzlement sometimes. On the one hand we have, "Put America first! Build the economy! Get rid of unfair trade agreements!" and then we have, "Not so fast. We need to continue to be the doormat AND piggy bank for the entire world or other countries might think we're meanies!" :scratch:

    I was never in the former.

    INGO is a melting pot.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,541
    113
    Fort Wayne
    They were struggling before the tariffs, this is just the perfect excuse for people opposing tariffs to point to and use as their example.

    “Expect over this summer to see lots of stories”, so we are back to predictions. I think, much like when anything happens now days, we should wait until we have factual evidence before jumping to conclusions.

    What more factual evidence do you need? History is littered with the detritus of tariffs.

    This whole endeavor was started with no facts!
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,865
    113
    .
    More and more in my line of work (chemicals) I see new products being developed in china that simply aren't for sale to non-chinese manufacturers. They are products of multi national corporations which are covered by exclusive agreements with the chinese government and service manufacturing that has moved to china. I see them advertised in industry trades, read about their capabilities and see use for them here in the US, but they aren't available. These aren't secret materials that go in stealth bombers, just things as mundane as the clear coating on a piece of furniture.

    Want to buy permethrin to make a new bug repellent? Isn't made here in the states.

    When you stop manufacturing, you start to lose new development, again not secret squirrel technology, but the day to day things that keep your business competitive in more mundane markets that provide many Americans with jobs.
     

    1DOWN4UP

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 25, 2015
    6,418
    113
    North of 30
    There's another factor - now those HD's won't bear the coveted "made in the USA" label.


    All this trade war tariff crap is going to do is isolated us and turn us into the kid who never gets invited to the parties. China will replace America as the #1 superpower because we shot our self in the foot.
    Harley opened it's India assembly back in 2009.It opened it's Brasil plant in 1998.It decided on Thailand before January.Up till now,the bikes we're assembled with American parts. The Tariffs are a excuse to push more production overseas.
     

    BehindBlueI's

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    29   0   0
    Oct 3, 2012
    25,897
    113
    I see it both ways. I understand having a means of production in the event to go on a war footing, but question the why tariffs are needed at this particular time.

    I have no idea. I have neither the required information nor understanding of the all the involved economies to say if these will be a net positive or a net loss short term or long term. I know there will be winners and losers (though oddly I've not heard the "gov't shouldn't be picking winners or losers" phrase lately). However I do understand that not all "economics" decisions are really about economics, and like I pointed out in the ethanol thread "the market" doesn't take into account things like the effect on national security, stability of markets, etc. Free trade is pretty universally accepted to be the biggest booster to all involved economies. However did we actually have free trade prior to the tariffs? Doubtful. Does putting basic building blocks of industry back in the US increase national security, even if it comes at some economic disadvantage? Probably.

    It sucks for the losers like Harley and whisky makers. If the gains elsewhere are worth it...dunno.
     

    BehindBlueI's

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    29   0   0
    Oct 3, 2012
    25,897
    113
    There's another factor - now those HD's won't bear the coveted "made in the USA" label.

    In my rather limited experience, I don't think it matters. It's still a "Made in the USA" brand and the marketing that goes with it. Coke is Coke, even when it's bottled in Egypt.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    32,138
    149
    Columbus, OH
    It cost money to be cool. Sure, you have to supply booze, but you still have fun, right?


    I don't care how much it cost as long as in the end we have a net positive. Now we'll be stuck at home, and losing far more money. A recession, brought on and exacerbated, by a trade war isn't the right answer.


    Nostradamus, is that you?

    So we should feel sad for the owners of NYSE: HOG but no love for the owners of NYSE: ARNC? Does it all reduce to whose ox is being gored? :roll eyes:
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,541
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Nostradamus, is that you?

    So we should feel sad for the owners of NYSE: HOG but no love for the owners of NYSE: ARNC? Does it all reduce to whose ox is being gored? :roll eyes:

    Look, historically tariffs have failed, sometimes miserably. There's a whole host of proverbs about learning from history, repeating mistakes, etc... It doesn't require a seer to figure this stuff out.


    As to winners and losers, time will tell which group is larger, but again, historically it's losers. And if this pushes us into a recession, then...



    Besides, aren't we due for a recession? It has been a while, probably time I move some investments into cash or metals...
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    32,138
    149
    Columbus, OH
    Yesss. Learning from history. Bug likes

    What does history tell us about the time when the US controlled Imperial Japan's access to strategic materials and attempted to use this control to 'guide' their behavior. Especially what does it tell us about when an opponent sees us with a weak military that hasn't kept pace with the times
     
    Top Bottom