TFB: Buying Your 1st AR-15

[JeepHammer]

Not being a professional or anything I do attend several AR/Carbine classes a year two the tune of around 3,000 rounds or more in classes and probably about another 2,500 in prep and self training. This has given me the chance to witness in person the operation of many different brands of AR’s here is some notable observations.

1. A great quality AR does not make up for a lack of training the $2500 someone’s spent does not mean crap if they cannot run it.
This is way more common than a person would think.

2. The majority of AR’s will not see 2,500 rounds in a lifetime. I still struggle with this “mil spec” thing. Having been issued more M16 series rifles than I can recall they ranged from shot out junk to brand new from a dizzying amount of makers.
IMO it doesn’t have to be “mil spec” to work.

3. IME in the real world “Franken Guns” no matter the quality of parts malfunction more than the cheap factory built one with even more catastrophe failures. That’s not saying many INGO peeps I have shot with do not do well with what they have built.

Low end recommendations

Ruger - They appear to work well and seem to be accurate

S&W sport II - adequate do not seem as well made as the Ruger I think most people would not ever notice the difference

Windham- I think they are worth more than the price well made and run well

MID Range

SIG M400 - I use this one works fine seems to be more accurate than most

Colt - Well made works good and well its a Colt

FN - Very well made some of the best government issued M16 I had were FN’s it seems to have carried over to the AR’s

High End

Daniel Defense - They seem to live up to the reputation

BCM - same as above

IME training far outweighs the rifle any good AR with a decent Optic can outperform most shooters. Buy a decent AR or build one then spend $$ on training.

BTW
Please don’t buy a $2500 rifle and put a $100 red dot on it. Balance between optic and rifle a cheaper rifle with a better optic will serve you well.

What he said.

Want to learn to SCUBA, take the classes,
Want to learn to drive a race car, take the classes,
If you want to jump out of an airplane, take the classes,
Want to learn to shoot, take the classes.
Best money you will ever spend!

In a shooting competition between military allies, I had my personal rifle along.
The British guys wanted to know if I was Canadian since I had a good optic on a common rifle...
They say Americans put $100 optics on $1,000 rifles, so they were confused.
I had actually won the optic, I couldn't afford a good optic on my Marine Corps paycheck.

A crap load of off the shelf rifles will shoot well, there are exactly zero $100 optics that shoot 1,000 yards reliably.
I hear the stories, but when you try and make adjustments repeatably, they never do, from mechanicals off spec to lenses off optical center, they ALL fail.

#3. With exception...
A 'Franken Gun' is mismatched parts assembled poorly.
Mismatched parts assembled poorly are all over the retail market from supposed 'Manufacturers'.
Just because it came from a 'Manufacturer' (assembler, they don't actually manufacture anything) doesn't mean it's quality parts or assembled correctly.

I see them all the time, and some I won't take on as a gunsmith simply because EVERYTHING is wrong.

 

[Trapper Jim]

TFB on different considerations for your first AR-15 rifle.

Decent break down by prices.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...arm-considerations-for-your-first-ar15-rifle/

No Bushmaster listed.???

 

[IronsKeeper]

No Bushmaster listed.???

Bushmaster's name post-Remington earned a bad reputation that still sours a great many folks taste.

That won't go away easily, even if they have improved (and I've heard it was only really one or two models that were ever bad- still hurt em)

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Sigblitz]

I was just bragging on my Bushmaster. It's actually my favorite. It is a joy.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

 

[Usmccookie]

Bushmaster's name post-Remington earned a bad reputation that still sours a great many folks taste.

That won't go away easily, even if they have improved (and I've heard it was only really one or two models that were ever bad- still hurt em)

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

As only having been involved with firearms for 4-5 years, I stay far far away from bushmaster. This is just what I was taught by experienced shooters. Never really knew why. I just never bothered with so many options on the market.

 

[Sigblitz]

I've had a handful of AR's. I have a couple of Colts. The Bushy is the cheap carbon model. I haven't had any problems with it. Stocks and mags are updated, vertical grip, red dot. It swings well being light and it's a tact driver. Vertical grip helps a lot to brace recoil and stay on target. I wish some of my other rifles could drop a few pounds.

 

[Sigblitz]

I had the ATI carbon before the Bushy. It was new junk. So I got soured on that brand.

 

[churchmouse]

The only AR's I've ever bought weren't rifles at all. They were stripped lowers.

It's worked very well for me. It certainly isn't cheap though to put together nice guns that work optimally.

I went this way when my learning curve went vertical from being a member here.

 

[MarkC]

I went this way when my learning curve went vertical from being a member here.

The same here. I would never have had the nerve to buy a stripped lower and put it together until I had the benefit of our group knowledge here. My first (and so far, only) build is an INGO lower from a group buy that became a 20" flat-topped A4-style rifle for the son. It was a great learning experience for the two of us to put it together.

 

[Trapper Jim]

As only having been involved with firearms for 4-5 years, I stay far far away from bushmaster. This is just what I was taught by experienced shooters. Never really knew why. I just never bothered with so many options on the market.

Unless you experience it yourself everything is hearsay and I have tens of thousands of rounds thru all makes of my Bushmasters. Maine, New York, and Alabama. Not sure what these experts think, but I will stay with the snake or Windham for now.

 

[Usmccookie]

Unless you experience it yourself everything is hearsay and I have tens of thousands of rounds thru all makes of my Bushmasters. Maine, New York, and Alabama. Not sure what these experts think, but I will stay with the snake or Windham for now.

I hear you. And I get that now, but with such a vast selection, it wasn't hard to go down a different path. I personally ended up busy building my own, with only one hiccup. That was my error, and it's gtg, until a class proves me wrong. I'm a strong believer of "if it works it works" but also you don't know the limits until you reach them. So in other words, to each their own.

 

[Sigblitz]

Like the Sig 365, you get a good one or a bad one. People with the good ones love them.

 

[Jb907]

I was poor and bought an MP15. Still running after 7,000 rnds.

 

[Rdsx]

They work well for the money you pay.

 

[Brad69]

I guess if you are checking out this thread or commenting you might be into Carbines ?

If so here is the next Carbine event with RR https://www.reveresriders.org/event/2019-oct-12-13-bedford-in/ the primary instructor will be nad63 as seen on INGO. It’s well worth the money all you need is a rifle, ear and eye pro, sling, a few mags and some ammo.
Plus you get a chance to shoot against me in the qualifier and see if your AR can keep up?
It a great low cost way to give your rifle a workout and gain confidence in your rifle and yourself.

 

[seedubs1]

No it's not!
MOST of the ARs I see still haven't had the upper receiver faced off square (cocked barrel when you don't), haven't had the chamber nut fitted to the upper so feed ramps don't have a ridge,
All too often gas blocks are leaking at the barrel (poor fitment), headspace is wrong, gas key isn't staked in place, ... that list goes on endlessly.

1) An in spec upper does not need the face lapped for a proper fitting barrel. There's been tons of accuracy testing done, and it doesn't affect anything unless it's grossly out of spec. If you're talking about those janky Brownells face lapping tools that you chuck in a drill, just go ahead and skip that all together. Unless you have a mill, lathe, or other proper tool, you aren't going to make a positive difference lapping that face.

2) Fitting a chamber to the upper? If the upper and barrel extension/pin are in spec, you don't need further fitting. These are disassembled/reassembled all day every day my the military from parts bins. They do not need "fitting" if they are mil-spec and in-spec.

3) Gas block port locating on the barrel is often done wrong by DIYers. Learn to measure and locate properly, and it's easy peasy.

4) Headspace doesn't need set on ARs. Buy quality mil-spec bolts and barrels from quality manufacturers, and they're plug and play. Same goes for gas block staking. Buy from quality manufacturers, and you don't have anything to worry about.

Basically, all of this can be summed up by: Buy from quality manufacturers. If you do, you don't need to worry as much about out of spec parts and don't need to spend time fixing components that are out of spec. Quality AR parts should not need "fitting" to function reliably. An AR is not a 1911.

And most of all.....Don't buy from Bear Creek

 

[Vigilant]

Parts is parts, it’s easy, and super cheap to get JAGA.

 

[seedubs1]

Parts is parts, it’s easy, and super cheap to get JAGA.

There's only like 2 companies that make all of the AR parts anyway. May as well buy the cheapest ones. They're all the same.

 

[firefighterjohn]

I guess if you are checking out this thread or commenting you might be into Carbines ?

If so here is the next Carbine event with RR https://www.reveresriders.org/event/2019-oct-12-13-bedford-in/ the primary instructor will be nad63 as seen on INGO. It’s well worth the money all you need is a rifle, ear and eye pro, sling, a few mags and some ammo.
Plus you get a chance to shoot against me in the qualifier and see if your AR can keep up?
It a great low cost way to give your rifle a workout and gain confidence in your rifle and yourself.

Sounds like a great time. I saw discounts for LEO and others...what about volunteer firefighter discounts? Also didn't see info on Bedford accommodations.

I like your previous low-end to high-end list. My Ruger AR556 (first AR) is a great entry level one but doesn't have the fit/finish and attention to detail like the BCM. But I've taken coyotes at 100+ yards with ease with both. You start out with what you can afford and upgrade later if you desire...but always good to have more than 1...which give more reasons to shoot and practice.