The Border Wall

[Twangbanger]

...It's a quick fix "solution" that appeals to dumb people who believe in quick fixes...Until the incentive structure that drives illegal border crossings is corrected...

Keeping in mind that some of the dumb people who believe in quick fixes, can in fact be Libertarians:

Can you A) define this "incentive structure" with specific Federal or State program names, and B) name one solid plan for fixing this "incentive structure" fielded by a declared Presidential candidate, who C) won a single electoral vote?

(Hint: if you start with part C), it might save you time).

I mean, really, this is somewhat similar logic to saying we can't have a tax cut until the Federal Budget is balanced. It's designed to put the other side into a box where they can't take any action.

 

[JettaKnight]

What do you think?

I think Vallum Trumpi is quickly becoming a folly and fiasco.

 

[Dead Duck]

I think Vallum Trumpi is quickly becoming a folly and fiasco.

I'm sorry your Hillary didn't win.
You'd think you would get over it by now.

Look, Trump is our president. The sooner we can admit that the sooner we can get back to living our lives in a normal way and not dwelling on our poor choice of candidates. It's been 2 years man. 2 years......






Oh, that wall's going up. Believe you me.

 

[indiucky]

Because of my time on Twitter I am starting to think Border is spelled "boarder"....

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm sorry your Hillary didn't win.
You'd think you would get over it by now.

Look, Trump is our president. The sooner we can admit that the sooner we can get back to living our lives in a normal way and not dwelling on our poor choice of candidates. It's been 2 years man. 2 years......






Oh, that wall's going up. Believe you me.

Who's paying for it? ...and what amount of funding will it get: $25B, 2.5B, or $1.3B?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Because of my time on Twitter I am starting to think Border is spelled "boarder"....

Oh, there are plenty here that don't know the difference either. I honestly had to check and make sure I was spelling it right, I see so many instances of people (all over) spelling it wrong. My personal pet peeves are "bellwether" and "jamb" ...but admittedly, I spelled both of those wrong for years before I was corrected, so now I always see misspellings.

 

[KG1]

To the OP's point, I think Trump is savvy enough to recognize that when things are going badly for him, he has been able to resort to The Wall The Wall The Wall, and get support.

So, yeah, I think Trump uses it as a distraction.

The current situation, though, suggests to me that this particular well may be running dry.

On the other hand it WAS a campaign promise that in part got him elected and I think the case can be made to his supporters that he hasn’t abandoned the issue.

i think given the current situation, as you put it, shows his supporters won’t let him abandon it.

IMO he’s got much more to lose politically if he doesn’t continue to push the wall at this point.

 

[Libertarian01]

I recall watching a very liberal democrat on Bill Maher's show calling his entire party leadership a bunch of idiots.

His view was this:

#1) Demand concessions from Trump on DACA. Why? He has said he is willing to negotiate.
#2) Demand real action on dealing with Dreamers? Why? Trump has specifically talked about being fair to kids who have grown up here.
#3) Push for meaningful immigration reform. This would be good for both liberals AND conservatives to make some substantial progress on this issue.

Then:

#4) GIVE TRUMP HIS BLOODY WALL!

You get DACA and Dreamers dealt with along with reasonable immigration reforms which almost everyone agrees are needed, then you strengthen boarder security with the wall. Will it work? Who cares? You would get substantial progress on three (3) major issues and it only costs $20 billion!

He was right. The democratic leadership is stupid not to work with Trump on this. Anything Trump agrees to the elected republicans will mostly fall in line. It is like Nixon going to China. If Trump agrees to immigration reforms, DACA and Dreamer laws and is happy because he gets his wall it is a cheap price to pay. Other republicans will be OK with it if Trump is good with it. They will fall in line. One of the problems is that this would not be solved overnight. I have painted broad strokes here and the detail work would need to be hammered out, but overall a few monthes of hard work with the promise of immigration reform for democratic leadership and a wall for Trump would push progress on a new law.

The problem now is that the democratic party machine has run so hard against Trump that they have painted themselves into a corner. They are afraid to give Trump any sort of victory for fear that it will enrage their own base, and they may be right. The sad truth is that Trump is reasonable on many immigration issues and they won't work with him where they could actually agree.

Both sides are pathetic.

Regards and Happy New Year,

Doug

 

[BugI02]

I don't think it is a matter of intelligence (for the most part). I think it is a matter of being fooled. At some point, a charlatan runs out of tricks.

Oh-h-h ka-a-ay, so were intelligent, but also easily fooled. What next, complement us on how well spoken we seem?

Oy vey. If I wished to be patronized I would become an artist

 

[BugI02]

A wall does not control a border. It's a quick fix "solution" that appeals to dumb people who believe in quick fixes. Unchanging, fixed physical barriers never last against determined, continuously innovating attackers. You can defeat a $25 billion wall with a $20 extension ladder and some rope. Somebody will come up with a laughably easy and efficient way to defeat the wall, same as people have come up with ways to defeat all forms of passive physical security. It's the nation state equivalent of slapping a Masterlock on your rifle case and calling it secure.

I think spending money on border security is a great idea. Spending money on border security in the form of a wall across the desert wasteland is dumb as hell. It is an inefficient solution and a poor return on investment outside of populated areas, almost all of which already have a physical barrier in place.

Until the incentive structure that drives illegal border crossings is corrected, a wall is just a minor obstacle to people whose job it is to figure out how to defeat obstacles. That requires Congress to get off their asses and make the hard choices instead of just setting fire to money out in the desert and pretending they did something.

Do go on! How may I subscribe to your newsletter?
View attachment 73218

 

[KG1]

I recall watching a very liberal democrat on Bill Maher's show calling his entire party leadership a bunch of idiots.

His view was this:

#1) Demand concessions from Trump on DACA. Why? He has said he is willing to negotiate.
#2) Demand real action on dealing with Dreamers? Why? Trump has specifically talked about being fair to kids who have grown up here.
#3) Push for meaningful immigration reform. This would be good for both liberals AND conservatives to make some substantial progress on this issue.

Then:

#4) GIVE TRUMP HIS BLOODY WALL!

You get DACA and Dreamers dealt with along with reasonable immigration reforms which almost everyone agrees are needed, then you strengthen boarder security with the wall. Will it work? Who cares? You would get substantial progress on three (3) major issues and it only costs $20 billion!

He was right. The democratic leadership is stupid not to work with Trump on this. Anything Trump agrees to the elected republicans will mostly fall in line. It is like Nixon going to China. If Trump agrees to immigration reforms, DACA and Dreamer laws and is happy because he gets his wall it is a cheap price to pay. Other republicans will be OK with it if Trump is good with it. They will fall in line. One of the problems is that this would not be solved overnight. I have painted broad strokes here and the detail work would need to be hammered out, but overall a few monthes of hard work with the promise of immigration reform for democratic leadership and a wall for Trump would push progress on a new law.

The problem now is that the democratic party machine has run so hard against Trump that they have painted themselves into a corner. They are afraid to give Trump any sort of victory for fear that it will enrage their own base, and they may be right. The sad truth is that Trump is reasonable on many immigration issues and they won't work with him where they could actually agree.

Both sides are pathetic.

Regards and Happy New Year,

Doug

Was’nt there a tentative deal awhile back that fell through where the Democrats offered the 25bil for border security in exchange for DACA and other immigration concessions they wanted?

It ended up with Schumer rescinding the offer after his failed shutdown attempt to get Trump to accept their terms claiming that Trump backed out of a tentative deal.

Trump’s response was something to the effect “No wall, No DACA” and they subsequently passed that massive omnibus bill that he signed without either one.

 

[mmpsteve]

Was’nt there a tentative deal awhile back that fell through where the Democrats offered the 25bil for border security in exchange for DACA and other immigration concessions they wanted?

It ended up with Schumer rescinding the offer after his failed shutdown attempt to get Trump to accept their terms claiming that Trump backed out of a tentative deal.

Trump’s response was something to the effect “No wall, No DACA” and they subsequently passed that massive omnibus bill that he signed without either one.

This was addressed in the other thread by Bugl02; "I believe an end to chain migration and remodeling of the visa program to a points based national interest system (like Canada's) are the concepts that have eluded you."

In addition, I think there was 'disagreement' on the birthright citizenship issue.

Eta: after re-reading your post, I see I might have missed your point, being that Trump passed the spending bill without any immigration provisions. Am I reading that right?

Never mind, I see you addressed this in the other thread.

.

.

 

[KG1]

This was addressed in the other thread by Bugl02; "I believe an end to chain migration and remodeling of the visa program to a points based national interest system (like Canada's) are the concepts that have eluded you."

In addition, I think there was 'disagreement' on the birthright citizenship issue.

Eta: after re-reading your post, I see I might have missed your point, being that Trump passed the spending bill without any immigration provisions. Am I reading that right?

Never mind, I see you addressed this in the other thread.

.

.

Yeah I’ve been bouncing back and forth between both threads. I pretty much just dropped a quick post here and added to it in the other thread.

 

[JTScribe]

Walls don't work, peons. <sneers in upper class.>

No, peon, you can't use this right-of-way.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/john-k...ncestral-french-villa-claiming-terror-threat/

 

[cb46184]

President Reagan was dedicated to bringing down a wall. Now Trump is dedicated to building another. Trump also got elected on the promise to defend our 2a rights...uh, lets not forget his comments on seizing our guns and worry about due process later. RED FLAG

 

[thunderchicken]

President Reagan was dedicated to bringing down a wall. Now Trump is dedicated to building another. Trump also got elected on the promise to defend our 2a rights...uh, lets not forget his comments on seizing our guns and worry about due process later. RED FLAG

The wall Reagan was dedicated to tearing down was used for a different purpose wasn't it?
A wall hy itself won't solve much of the problem. Its simply a piece of the puzzle to force as many immigrants as possible to come here legally. It's a matter of National Security and we need to harden ourselves as a target. We need to do so much more than just build a wall to fix the problem of illegal immigration.

As for red flag laws and Trump's promise to defend 2A rights. Yep I remeber his comments on seizing guns and worrying about due process later. Is it at all possible his words were partly a result of speaking out of frustration? I also consider that it may be in part due to his business background of build it now and ask for a variance and see what happens later mentality. As far as I know he never studied law or constitutional law like some of the career law makers. Not giving him a free pass by any means, but this is where the house and senate as well as we the people, have a responsibility to keep the president reigned in.
Back on topic- again its the Govt's job to enforce immigration laws and to keep our borders secure. If we cut down spending in a number of areas we could easily pay for a wall and more resources to secure our borders and improve the immigration process. Lawmakers have been kicking that can down the road far too long. Another example of the mentality in the swamp

 

[kiddchaos]

This just talks about the of degree and scale of of wall-building needed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTQDwSVMdNg

 

[churchmouse]

The wall Reagan was dedicated to tearing down was used for a different purpose wasn't it?
A wall hy itself won't solve much of the problem. Its simply a piece of the puzzle to force as many immigrants as possible to come here legally. It's a matter of National Security and we need to harden ourselves as a target. We need to do so much more than just build a wall to fix the problem of illegal immigration.

As for red flag laws and Trump's promise to defend 2A rights. Yep I remeber his comments on seizing guns and worrying about due process later. Is it at all possible his words were partly a result of speaking out of frustration? I also consider that it may be in part due to his business background of build it now and ask for a variance and see what happens later mentality. As far as I know he never studied law or constitutional law like some of the career law makers. Not giving him a free pass by any means, but this is where the house and senate as well as we the people, have a responsibility to keep the president reigned in.
Back on topic- again its the Govt's job to enforce immigration laws and to keep our borders secure. If we cut down spending in a number of areas we could easily pay for a wall and more resources to secure our borders and improve the immigration process. Lawmakers have been kicking that can down the road far too long. Another example of the mentality in the swamp

This entire thing is a political football. Just like SS benefits they have been using it to put Trump in a corner. In doing so they have exposed their dirty diapers.

 

[ashby koss]

If anyone knows how to exploit/ game/ trick / mitigate the "other side of the table, Its Trump. We elected him because he knows business and can get results, not because hes a pretty face.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If anyone knows how to exploit/ game/ trick / mitigate the "other side of the table, Its Trump. We elected him because he knows business and can get results, not because hes a pretty face.

I'm sorry, but his presidency, since he has been elected, hasn't really indicated he's that capable.