The Founding Fathers Passed Their Own Version of Obamacare

[mrjarrell]

As is typical, you didn't read what I wrote but were listening to the voices in your head. I said "liberal". I did not say any party. This is a typical distraction of liberals. Whenever someone calls out a liberal as a liberal they run to Democrat vs. Republican.

OK, then. Liberals have done harm, but the conservatives have more than willingly lined up to do just as much. There, better now?

 

[CarmelHP]

since when does news has to have a point apart from itself??? its like the ussr if we wont talk about something unless it fits in with something else we want to believe...

If you had no point in posting it, then it's you who won't talk about it. And your blabbering about the "USSR" is adolescent. If someone asks you WTF, it's considerably different than being sent to the gulag. Apparently, your florid and fetid imagination about being "oppressed" cannot separate the two.

 

[machete]

If you had no point in posting it, then it's you who won't talk about it. And your blabbering about the "USSR" is adolescent.

what are you talking about??? the post is called --- The Founding Fathers Passed Their Own Version of Obamacare,,,not --- Machete Posts That The Founding Fathers Passed Their Own Version of Obamacare...

If someone asks you WTF,

then someone is trying to talk about something else instead of the post!!!

this isnt fox news where every bit of news is only given out if it can be part of some larger message... lets talk about the truth,,,not about some guy talking about the truth...

“The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.” --- Winston Churchill

from now and forever,,,all that founding father talk about obamacare is dead... thats the truth...

 

[Bendrx]

I wasn't aware of this, thanks for bringing it up. Wouldn't want to have been blind sided by this in a discussion.


Artical 1, section 8:

The Congress shall have Power To Lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

10th Amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States repectively, or to the people."

The 1798 tax was Constitutional in my opinion because it was a tax that applied the UNIFORMLY to the whole nation. If you were on a ship as a seaman that came from a foreign port to an American port there was an excise applied, of 20 cents I belive it said. It was a tax, but not evenly applied as only one profession was taxed, it was however uniform. (BTW, I don't like it)

Obama"care" isn't a tax, but uses tax as a penalty and from my understanding it isn't applied uniformly.

"RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION — Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section"

This then goes into IRS code that I doubt I could ever understand. But anyways:

1st Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respoecting an establihsment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."

Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947) Justice Hugo Black:

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.'" 330 U.S. 1, 15-16.

By providing exemptions or tax breaks to a member of any religious group it DOES in effect, help to advance that religion and show prefereance.

As such I feel that any exemptions for any member of a religious group in current tax laws, or in allowing the penalty of additional taxation for the same is Unconstitutional.

Basically the way I see it, bad ju-ju for being a mandate and not a tax, and even more bad ju-ju because they had to bring taxes into it in an uncontitutional way.

 

[Suprtek]

know all that talk about not being able to force people to buy health insurance because its unconstitutional??? and about the founding fathers rolling over in their graves??? turns out the founding fathers passed the same exact thing in 1798... Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 - Rick Ungar - The Policy Page - Forbes

All this proves is the fact that our government has always been willing to exceed its authority for political purposes. It was wrong then and it is wrong today.

What is does NOT prove is just because something was done wrong before, that it is OK to do it again.

IMO, this argument is more akin to a small child saying "Look Daddy, Johnny got to do it, I should get to do it too!"

 

[CarmelHP]

what are you talking about??? the post is called --- The Founding Fathers Passed Their Own Version of Obamacare,,,not --- Machete Posts That The Founding Fathers Passed Their Own Version of Obamacare...



then someone is trying to talk about something else instead of the post!!!

this isnt fox news where every bit of news is only given out if it can be part of some larger message... lets talk about the truth,,,not about some guy talking about the truth...

“The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.” --- Winston Churchill

from now and forever,,,all that founding father talk about obamacare is dead... thats the truth...

So, let's see how this goes....you're permitted to post whatever comes into your pretty little head, but <gasp> is anyone were to question you upon the import of it then they are Soviets who are infringing upon your god given right to blather on about whatever nonsense now tickles your fancy. Oh Lord, save us from our self-appointed saviors and various sunshine patriots who whine of oppression if their fellows don't agree immediately with what foolishness they currently spout.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

OK, then. Liberals have done harm, but the conservatives have more than willingly lined up to do just as much. There, better now?

Jarrell,
Have you ever actually lived in an area controlled by liberal politicians? I have. I have lived in Chicago and Boston. I have also lived in more conservative areas such at Springfield, Missouri, Tampa and here in Mishawaka. The differences are night and day. You could not possibly have any concept of the hell it is to be a gun owner in an area controlled by liberal politicians and make this statement.

 

[Expat]

Jarrell,
Have you ever actually lived in an area controlled by liberal politicians? I have. I have lived in Chicago and Boston. I have also lived in more conservative areas such at Springfield, Missouri, Tampa and here in Mishawaka. The differences are night and day. You could not possibly have any concept of the hell it is to be a gun owner in an area controlled by liberal politicians and make this statement.

Sorry Tim, to the ideologically pure anarchist there really is no difference. Both keep us from peeing upon the public sidewalk. So they are both infringing upon our natural rights.

 

[lashicoN]

Does this really change anything? I mean, our founders owned slaves...so I always thought it was obvious that they weren't perfect. It's still unAmerican to force people to purchase insurance on something they fully own (their own body). John Adams passed a resolution to crush real freedom of speech...not everything our founders did furthered freedom. They were regular people too.

 

[DustinG]

#1 This was only the regulation of a particular trade. Congress has the power through the Commerce Clause to regulate commerce. Forcing seamen to get healthcare, I think would be considered commerce; however, a bill that mandates EVERYONE is not regulating commerce, but instead goes beyond the scope of the Commerce Clause. What goes beyond the scope of the Commerce Clause is unconstitutional.

#2 In order for something to be declared unconstitutional, it has to be challenged. Also passed during the Adams administration was the Alien and Sedition Act, which I think most agree was unconstitutional. Just because something was passed does not mean that it is constitutional.

 

[inxs]

The point had less to do with the sailors well-being than it did with the importation of serious diseases into this country. Simple history....

 

[88GT]

know all that talk about not being able to force people to buy health insurance because its unconstitutional??? and about the founding fathers rolling over in their graves??? turns out the founding fathers passed the same exact thing in 1798... Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 - Rick Ungar - The Policy Page - Forbes

Nothing redistributive about it.

And it wasn't insurance.

There was no theft of the income simply because one made money. And said money wasn't being used for the benefit of others entirely unrelated to the individual who supplied the funds.

There isn't a scrap of relevance to Obamacare in this legislation.

 

[machete]

So, let's see how this goes....you're permitted to post whatever comes into your pretty little head, but <gasp> is anyone were to question you upon the import of it then they are Soviets who are infringing upon your god given right to blather on about whatever nonsense now tickles your fancy.

what is this??? its news... thats the only point it has... sorry if the facts dont fit with to some message your trying to get out...

take it up with the founding fathers,,, they passed the law...

 

[machete]

Sorry Tim, to the ideologically pure anarchist there really is no difference. Both keep us from peeing upon the public sidewalk. So they are both infringing upon our natural rights.

It is easy to take liberty for granted, when you have never had it taken from you.- VP Dick Cheney

theres a natural right to pee on the sidewalk???

and why do you still have magazine ban anti-gun cheneys quote as your sig???