The Great NRA 3 Rules vs. Cooper's 4 Rules Debate

[Birds Away]

Just playing the Devil's advocate here; maybe, for some folks, one rule is all that is necessary. Always treat the gun as if it's loaded. The rest are just logical follow ons from the first.

 

[jamil]

I steal those as well. Really two fundamental rules are all that is needed and those look an awful lot like NRA #1 & #2. NRA #3 is added to give clarification for properly storing, maintaining, and handling firearms in a cold range situation. Defensive firearms are by definition in use and will be loaded.

Having worked with with several types of people over the years I can tell you not everyone understands conceptual or philosophical ideas. Also in adult learning we shouldn't tell people what not to do. For instance, don't jerk the trigger instead of press the trigger. The NRA rules are clearly worded with ALWAYS and then what to do.

I do not discount the 4 rules. These are lifestyle rules for USING a gun in the real world. As such they lend themselves for use on the range as well.

Ever wonder why the NRAs first rule for using a gun is to know your target and what is beyond? Hmmmmm. Wonder where that influence came from? 3 vs 4 are not different. There should be no debate.

good post.

 

[cordex]

I've been pretty clear on other threads but to summarize: I prefer Cooper4 vs NRA3, but I believe someone can be taught well with either set as the underlying framework.

That said,
NRA3 is less impactful using sterile phrasing such as "safe direction" vs "willing to destroy"
NRA3 assumes the end-user will have a full understanding of what "safe direction" means while Cooper4 explicitly forces you to consider what happens after the bullet hits the target.
NRA3 assumes the user will understand their universal applicability

I ask you all: What is the common denominator in the vast majority of negligent discharges? Simple: "I didn't know it was loaded."

Yep. It is remarkably consistent.

Now I ask: WHY did the negligent person handle the "unloaded" firearm in an unsafe manner? WHY did he think it was acceptable to blatantly violate simple muzzle and trigger discipline rules with devastating consequences?

Once again, because people with even a passing familiarity with guns quickly figure out for themselves that unloaded guns are completely and utterly inert and do not hurt anyone. Until they are wrong.

Which is why Cooper #1 must be taught, and why NRA3 supporters do teach it as a fundamental component of their instruction, but try to hide it and pretend that they don't.

 

[VERT]

Just playing the Devil's advocate here; maybe, for some folks, one rule is all that is necessary. Always treat the gun as if it's loaded. The rest are just logical follow ons from the first.

In the beginning there was but one rule and that is to treat all guns as if they were loaded. Simple, elegant, covers everything. Problem is many people can't conceptualize philosophical ideas. See my previous post.

(Actually gun safety rules have been in print for many years. The Colonel did not invent this but he did codify it.)

 

[Birds Away]

In the beginning there was but one rule and that is to treat all guns as if they were loaded. Simple, elegant, covers everything. Problem is many people can't conceptualize philosophical ideas. See my previous post.

(Actually gun safety rules have been in print for many years. The Colonel did not invent this but he did codify it.)

I agree, hence my previous post. It is the duty of the teacher to reach the student not the other way around. JMHO.

 

[Benp]

For me, verification is the first step cause I don't trust what others may claim, and until I see with my own eyes I don't trust it.

I agree!
To assume that a firearm is always loaded is just wrong because there is no way that can always be true, nor should it always be true. There would be no way to do dry-fire drills because the gun is always loaded. Field stripping many guns requires pulling the trigger - can't do it because the gun is always loaded.
Don't assume anything!
Always keeping the gun pointing in a safe direction at all times, in all conditions. If you need to shoot someone/something then the gun needs to be pointing in a direction that is only unsafe for what you are about to destroy.
Know the state of the firearm! Verify for yourself the state of the gun. If the gun is loaded but needs to be unloaded - unload it. If the gun is unloaded but needs to be loaded - load it. If the gun is unloaded and needs to be unloaded - great. If the gun is loaded and needs to be loaded - great.
Always pulling the trigger with purpose.
If the gun is loaded - Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until you are ready to destroy something - If so then verify your target and what's behind it.
If the gun is unloaded - Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until you are ready to field strip the gun or practice dry-fire drills - If so then verify your target and what's behind it.

 

[miguel]

I believe pride is the reason for ND.

Everyone thinks they aren't stupid or inattentive enough to make a mistake and accidentally shoot themselves or someone else.

"I would never put loaded guns (exempting SD guns) in the gun safe, so this weapon can't be loaded..."

"My spouse/son/daughter/brother/whatever would never leave a loaded (exempting SD guns) on the back steps, so this weapon can't be loaded..."

"You'd have to be an idiot to accidentally shoot someone..."

 

[ViperJock]

 

[ViperJock]

Beginners need more hard and fast rules. Experience allows the number of rules to decrease and the use of situational judgment to increase.

 

[Benp]

Beginners need more hard and fast rules. Experience allows the number of rules to decrease and the use of situational judgment to increase.

Excellent point! And great quote!

 

[cbhausen]

I steal those as well. Really two fundamental rules are all that is needed and those look an awful lot like NRA #1 & #2. NRA #3 is added to give clarification for properly storing, maintaining, and handling firearms in a cold range situation. Defensive firearms are by definition in use and will be loaded.

Having worked with with several types of people over the years I can tell you not everyone understands conceptual or philosophical ideas. Also in adult learning we shouldn't tell people what not to do. For instance, don't jerk the trigger instead of press the trigger. The NRA rules are clearly worded with ALWAYS and then what to do.

I do not discount the 4 rules. These are lifestyle rules for USING a gun in the real world. As such they lend themselves for use on the range as well.

Ever wonder why the NRAs first rule for using a gun is to know your target and what is beyond? Hmmmmm. Wonder where that influence came from? 3 vs 4 are not different. There should be no debate.

Great post, thanks. I will differ with you regarding equivalence, though. You yourself stated Cooper tells us what not to do while NRA tells us what to do. That makes the rules very different in my opinion. I understand many think that these differences are semantic only but I still maintain they are more than that.

Thanks, VERT and everyone else for a great ongoing discussion.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Beginners need more hard and fast rules. Experience allows the number of rules to decrease and the use of situational judgment to increase.

This is how the experienced get shot.

"I am the only one here able to violate the Four Rules because I know that my leg is a safe direction. Why? Because I am experienced."

The Four Rules apply. Even if you have a beard.

 

[T.Lex]

I was a bit frustrated when my last rifle purchase came with the 10 Commandments of Gun Safety.

I'm down with commandments.

I'm down with gun safety.

But geez - thats too many.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I was a bit frustrated when my last rifle purchase came with the 10 Commandments of Gun Safety.

I'm down with commandments.

I'm down with gun safety.

But geez - thats too many.

It's soooo hard to be a bada** with people like Freeman screaming about safety.

It's like I have to be disciplined or something when everyone knows how smart and what a special snowflake I am.

 

[Expat]

It's soooo hard to be a bada** with people like Freeman screaming about safety.

It's like I have to be disciplined or something when everyone knows how smart and what a special snowflake I am.

You haven't seen me spin the .45 colt on my finger.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You haven't seen me spin the .45 colt on my finger.

If you work in a gun store and have a beard you can go on INGO and say that it is not dangerous to do so.

Education and discipline is so non-tactical.

 

[EPeter213]

I agree!
To assume that a firearm is always loaded is just wrong because there is no way that can always be true, nor should it always be true. There would be no way to do dry-fire drills because the gun is always loaded. Field stripping many guns requires pulling the trigger - can't do it because the gun is always loaded.
Don't assume anything!
Always keeping the gun pointing in a safe direction at all times, in all conditions. If you need to shoot someone/something then the gun needs to be pointing in a direction that is only unsafe for what you are about to destroy.
Know the state of the firearm! Verify for yourself the state of the gun. If the gun is loaded but needs to be unloaded - unload it. If the gun is unloaded but needs to be loaded - load it. If the gun is unloaded and needs to be unloaded - great. If the gun is loaded and needs to be loaded - great.
Always pulling the trigger with purpose.
If the gun is loaded - Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until you are ready to destroy something - If so then verify your target and what's behind it.
If the gun is unloaded - Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until you are ready to field strip the gun or practice dry-fire drills - If so then verify your target and what's behind it.

I prefer benp's three to either traditional set.

 

[EPeter213]

If you work in a gun store and have a beard you can go on INGO and say that it is not dangerous to do so.

Education and discipline is so non-tacti-cool.

FTFY.

 

[mcapo]

Will following the four rules prevent negligent discharge? Yes.

Will following the three rules prevent negligent discharge? Yes.

</thread>

This is true. I like the fourth rule as its makes new (and experience) shooter be aware of their target and its surroundings.

Four rules - then three rules - next it will be 140 characters only. I really am getting old and miss yesterday...

 

[tbhausen]

The other is simple.....people.

Rule #1) Don't trust anyone

I've been handed many unloaded guns to find out maybe the magazine was out but there was one in the pipe or vice versa; or people who say it's not loaded in general. Been swept by too many "unloaded" guns as well to trust anyone else but myself

For me, verification is the first step cause I don't trust what others may claim, and until I see with my own eyes I don't trust it.


However, like someone mentioned before. It's a numbers game. Accidents will happen and stupid will happen. Car incidents, gun incidents, power tools, etc. Unfortunate things will always happen, we can just hope to decrease the odds by education and people using their brains

+1... I've only had one "less than ideal" incident with a firearm, and this pretty much sums up how it could've been prevented.