The Harvey Weinstein Effect

[Birds Away]

Just putting this out there... and I'm not trying to defend the guy, BUT he hasn't been convicted of anything. Do I think he was greasy, unattractive slob, who had lots of money, the ability to make people stars and parlayed that into opportunities to sleep with women he otherwise would not? Yep, I do. But if you're a chick, and decide to sleep with greasy, unattractive slob, with lots of money and who can open doors, whose fault that?

I agree to a point. I don't know if any LE agencies are actually investigating this but it would seem that someone should. He seems to be, at very least, a despicable human being. But without an actual investigation we will never know whether he crossed the line of criminality and to what degree.

 

[Sylvain]

I agree to a point. I don't know if any LE agencies are actually investigating this but it would seem that someone should. He seems to be, at very least, a despicable human being. But without an actual investigation we will never know whether he crossed the line of criminality and to what degree.

He's under investigation both in the UK and the US (NYPD and FBI).

Harvey Weinstein: Scotland Yard investigating three further sexual assault claims

Trump administration orders 'FBI probe into Harvey Weinstein' | The Independent

Also in France.

Weinstein was presented with the Legion of Honor — France’s highest award for merit — in 2012 by then-French president Nicolas Sarkozy after his French film “The Artist” won five Oscars. Weinstein was honored for his contribution to cinema.
“I have begun steps to withdraw the Legion d’Honneur,” Macron said in an interview on TF1. “Since these acts lack honor, we [should consider] all consequences.” Macron said he has asked the chair of the National Order of Merit “to examine quickly this case and launch a disciplinary procedure” against Weinstein. The final decision will be up to the Order of Merit.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...n-legion-of-honor_us_59e3d33ce4b0a52aca18bc8d

 

[Sylvain]

Just putting this out there... and I'm not trying to defend the guy, BUT he hasn't been convicted of anything. Do I think he was greasy, unattractive slob, who had lots of money, the ability to make people stars and parlayed that into opportunities to sleep with women he otherwise would not? Yep, I do. But if you're a chick, and decide to sleep with greasy, unattractive slob, with lots of money and who can open doors, whose fault that?

I'm not sure they "decided" to do stuff, more like being pressured to do stuff.This guy could end their carreer if they said no.
He was an authority figure, not just a rich guy.There's a big difference.
If the victim is too scared to say no it's still rape.
If he used coercion and intimidation to get their consent that's still despicable and probably just as illegal.
From one I have read he also allegedly grabbed some women without their consent.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

If the victim is too scared to say no it's still rape.

Mmmm.... Non-celebrity types? Sure, I can see that. But when they're rich and famous, and not being physically threatened? I don't agree with this. Anyone can walk away. Being afraid of the repercussions is one thing, and they all had the choice to blow the lid off of this, and chose not to at the time. I don't think physical harm would come to these people if they said "no" and left. That's where I'd draw the line at calling this "rape".

Obviously, common people have no idea what their rapist is capable of in the moment, and physical harm is likely on the table.

From one I have read he also allegedly grabbed some women without their consent.

Eh, this is probably pretty common in certain circles. We're getting into SJW territory of labeling things what they aren't... like people that talk seriously about being "raped" when men look at them.

 

[HoughMade]

....If the victim is too scared to say no it's still rape.

Legally? Maybe, depending on the overall context of the encounter, but exceedingly difficult to prove.

If he used coercion and intimidation to get their consent that's still despicable and probably just as illegal.

Again, maybe depending on the form of the "coercion and intimidation", and just as dicey to prove. "I knew that if I didn't I'd never work again", standing alone, isn't going to cut it in a criminal prosecution.

From one I have read he also allegedly grabbed some women without their consent.

Crime.

 

[historian]

It is clearly inappropriate sexual harassment. Criminal, some of the circumstances, yes. Others, no. Either way, it seems like he actually watched the sexual harassment videos as a "how to" guide. And, TBH, I thought those video villains were always so obvious that they didn't exist in the real world.

 

[Sylvain]

Eh, this is probably pretty common in certain circles.

That's the problem and that doesn't make it right.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Producers Guild moves to expel Harvey Weinstein - Oct. 16, 2017

 

[HoughMade]

Producers Guild moves to expel Harvey Weinstein - Oct. 16, 2017...

He's not what you would call a scape goat, but it seems an awful lot like all these people and organizations are tripping over themselves to expel him and distance themselves, lest the public take a closer look at more of their members.

 

[Vigilant]

I'm not sure they "decided" to do stuff, more like being pressured to do stuff.This guy could end their carreer if they said no.
He was an authority figure, not just a rich guy.There's a big difference.
If the victim is too scared to say no it's still rape.
If he used coercion and intimidation to get their consent that's still despicable and probably just as illegal.
From one I have read he also allegedly grabbed some women without their consent.

I don't know, if I were say, a president, and I got, say, an intern to glaze my cigars, would that be the same? Would it be illegal? Or just a Wednesday?

 

[Sylvain]

I don't know, if I were say, a president, and I got, say, an intern to glaze my cigars, would that be the same? Would it be illegal? Or just a Wednesday?

I don't know about illegal but probably immoral.
Especially if said president was cheating on his wife by doing that ...

 

[Vigilant]

I'm not sure they "decided" to do stuff, more like being pressured to do stuff.This guy could end their carreer if they said no.
He was an authority figure, not just a rich guy.There's a big difference.
If the victim is too scared to say no it's still rape.
If he used coercion and intimidation to get their consent that's still despicable and probably just as illegal.
From one I have read he also allegedly grabbed some women without their consent.

I don't know about illegal but probably immoral.
Especially if said president was cheating on his wife by doing that ...

Did they "decide" to do it? Were they afraid? Kinda looks same same to me? THE most powerful man in the WORLD, vs. a powerful man in a business?

 

[Sylvain]

Did they "decide" to do it? Were they afraid? Kinda looks same same to me? THE most powerful man in the WORLD, vs. a powerful man in a business?

Yep, in both cases you get fired if you say no.That's coercion to me.

 

[BugI02]

I agree to a point. I don't know if any LE agencies are actually investigating this but it would seem that someone should. He seems to be, at very least, a despicable human being. But without an actual investigation we will never know whether he crossed the line of criminality and to what degree.

He is entangled with the Clintons. If you're going to prosecute, better put him in witness protection before he shoots himself in the back of the head (twice)

 

[BugI02]

Legally? Maybe, depending on the overall context of the encounter, but exceedingly difficult to prove.



Again, maybe depending on the form of the "coercion and intimidation", and just as dicey to prove. "I knew that if I didn't I'd never work again", standing alone, isn't going to cut it in a criminal prosecution.



Crime.

What if they pulled a gun out of their purse when he was forcing a 'naked encounter' and stumped him, and it was just their word against some dead guy's? Would that improve the legal landscape for them?

 

[HoughMade]

What if they pulled a gun out of their purse when he was forcing a 'naked encounter' and stumped him, and it was just their word against some dead guy's? Would that improve the legal landscape for them?

Criminal charges are infrequently filed against dead guys. I was speaking in the context of criminal charges only.

However, if they shot a guy dead for threatening to ruin their career unless they sleep with him, now we're talking criminal charges again. I have yet to here of actual physical force being used by him. Maybe, but I haven't heard of it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Criminal charges are infrequently filed against dead guys. I was speaking in the context of criminal charges only.

However, if they shot a guy dead for threatening to ruin their career unless they sleep with him, now we're talking criminal charges again. I have yet to here of actual physical force being used by him. Maybe, but I haven't heard of it.

Well, they did hang Oliver Cromwell.

 

[halfmileharry]

Al Michaels apologizes for Harvey Weinstein joke during 'Sunday Night Football' - Oct. 16, 2017

 

[ghuns]

I have yet to here of actual physical force being used by him. Maybe, but I haven't heard of it.

Oh, it's out there.

“I said, over and over, ‘I don’t want to do this, stop, don’t,’” she said. “I tried to get away, but maybe I didn’t try hard enough. I didn’t want to kick him or fight him.” In the end, she said, “He’s a big guy. He overpowered me.”

A Running List of the Women Who Have Accused Harvey Weinstein of Sexual Harassment and Assault

 

[HoughMade]

Al Michaels apologizes for Harvey Weinstein joke during 'Sunday Night Football' - Oct. 16, 2017

Anyone who is outraged by his joke....they just like to be outraged.