The joys of home ownership are only exceeded by. . . . . . .

[Old Dog]

When we sold our third house, I was a little disappointed in not making a bunch of money. My real estate agent reminded me that I live there for 16 years and didn't pay rent.

16 years X $1000 month = $192,000. Not a bad savings.

Sorry to be a Donnie Downer, but you must account for 16 years of property taxes you paid for owning that house, have to deduct that from your $192,000. $2000 annually x 16 years = $32,000. Still not bad return on "investment".

 

[GMediC]

I feel ya. I'm in the middle of a kitchen remodel, including foyer, laundry room,and half bath. One new AC unit, still need to replace the other and a furnace, as well as a new roof.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[amboy49]

My most recent mistake was allowing my wife to be the “general contractor” on our event master bath and master bedroom remodel floor to ceiling and wall to wall. I agreed to pay one half of the expense if she would pay the other half. (We both have separate income). The project came in over time and over budget. Her original estimates for materials were u dearest images in almost every category. . My mistake was not putting a cap on the cost or, at least, reviewing her estimates.

The end result looks great and I’ve been told remodeling bath rooms and kitchens result in the best return on investment. If we ever sell guess we’ll see.

 

[maxwelhse]

Sorry to be a Donnie Downer, but you must account for 16 years of property taxes you paid for owning that house, have to deduct that from your $192,000. $2000 annually x 16 years = $32,000. Still not bad return on "investment".

...and the opportunity cost from not being able to earn interest on investing the money tied up in buying a house, and interest on a mortgage, the entire time. The stock market has returned 10%-15% historically.

I'm not at all "pro-rental", as the most assured way to die in poverty for most people is to retire with a housing payment, but if you're going to really crunch the numbers you have to crunch them all.

This, among other things, is how the house I lived in for 10 years and paid $100k for, and sold for $90k, cost me about $60k... Overall, still cheaper than renting, but it's not the great deal a lot of people think it might be just based on the raw numbers.

Like Jetta, there were reasons I took a raw number loss and frankly I'm thankful it wasn't worse than it was. I'm really, really, hoping that I can afford enough land the next time around that it won't matter what happens to "the neighborhood" because I shouldn't be able to see beyond 1 or 2 property lines in any direction anyhow.

 

[Ingomike]

Learned that hard way when we sold for the same price we paid fifteen years earlier.




Not the first time you've told me I'm wrong...


There's not a lot you can do when the entire neighborhood has suddenly declined and you need to get out.
We didn't invest a lot in that home, just sweat equity.

You just are not looking at the entire balance sheet. The unfathomable interest rates have altered the balance between renting and buying. A House in Indy that sells for $190,000 has a payment of around $1000, including taxes and insurance, per month currently for well qualified buyers. The same house for rent will go for $1500-2000 per month. If you were saving the low end $500 per month for the 15 years you saved $90,000. Part of that is that rentals pay 2% property taxes, not the 1% owners pay.

There is is a lot more than just what you paid vs. what you sold it for...

 

[gregkl]

My most recent mistake was allowing my wife to be the “general contractor” on our event master bath and master bedroom remodel floor to ceiling and wall to wall. I agreed to pay one half of the expense if she would pay the other half. (We both have separate income). The project came in over time and over budget. Her original estimates for materials were u dearest images in almost every category. . My mistake was not putting a cap on the cost or, at least, reviewing her estimates.

The end result looks great and I’ve been told remodeling bath rooms and kitchens result in the best return on investment. If we ever sell guess we’ll see.

That looks great!

 

[maxwelhse]

That looks great!

No doubt. Can't argue with her result. I've never even had a steady gal who made the bed that nicely (or at all).

 

[Hkindiana]

So, you didn't have a mortgage on that house, nor insurance, nor taxes?
Never replace the carpet? Or the roof? Or a water heater?




Sincerely,
Debbie Downer

You have to take all of that into account, but you probably still came out way ahead. It is pretty easy to do a spread sheet taking all the factors into consideration.

 

[J Galt]

If that is your experience you are doing it wrong...

Or you are just wrong...

Ok Dottie Herman. I'm sure that everyone can turn a HUGE profit on every house they sell just like you.

Which explains why you're posting here........from your private jet.........in Monaco.

 

[Ingomike]

Ok Dottie Herman. I'm sure that everyone can turn a HUGE profit on every house they sell just like you.

Which explains why you're posting here........from your private jet.........in Monaco.

It is commonly understood that for many Americans the value of their home is the majority of their wealth and they gained that by being able to leverage the investment. You go take a 3.5% down payment and buy stocks, we heard above they offer big returns.

I did did not say you would get rich, just be better off than renting and that based on your comments you are doing it wrong...

 

[JettaKnight]

You have to take all of that into account, but you probably still came out way ahead. It is pretty easy to do a spread sheet taking all the factors into consideration.

Way too much work for something that, in the end, I can't change. It'd simply be a, "hey, I made XXX." But when I sell (which won't be for at least a decade), those figures would purely be for historical purposes.

If I remodel, it's primarily because I want a better home. Maybe later, I'll actually have to consider how it will affect the sale price, but I'll a long way from selling.



I put in a garden pond and vault, two things I'm not wanting to do again, but feel like I can't live without. I'm not moving.

 

[J Galt]

It is commonly understood that for many Americans the value of their home is the majority of their wealth and they gained that by being able to leverage the investment. You go take a 3.5% down payment and buy stocks, we heard above they offer big returns.

I did did not say you would get rich, just be better off than renting and that based on your comments you are doing it wrong...

No you did not. This is exactly what you said:

If that is your experience you are doing it wrong...

Or you are just wrong...

Those are 2 completely different statements. In the first comment you were being an ass. The second comment was an actual articulation of an opinion.

Furthermore, I made no comparison of if would have been "better off than renting" so you're comment is not only stirring the pot, it's inaccurate.

 

[Ingomike]

Children eventually become self-sufficient and leave....to get their own homes. Houses just require more and more. You never recoup the amount you have put into the home.

Biggest fallacy popularly accepted: A home is an investment.

An investment should have the potential to give you more money than you have spent on it.

If that is your experience you are doing it wrong...

Or you are just wrong...

Ok Dottie Herman. I'm sure that everyone can turn a HUGE profit on every house they sell just like you.

Which explains why you're posting here........from your private jet.........in Monaco.

It is commonly understood that for many Americans the value of their home is the majority of their wealth and they gained that by being able to leverage the investment. You go take a 3.5% down payment and buy stocks, we heard above they offer big returns.

I did did not say you would get rich, just be better off than renting and that based on your comments you are doing it wrong...

No you did not. This is exactly what you said:


Those are 2 completely different statements. In the first comment you were being an ass. The second comment was an actual articulation of an opinion.

Furthermore, I made no comparison of if would have been "better off than renting" so you're comment is not only stirring the pot, it's inaccurate.

Your statement: "Biggest fallacy popularly accepted: A home is an investment" is flat out wrong. It actually is one of the largest sources of savings and wealth for Americans.

Your statement: "An investment should have the potential to give you more money than you have spent on it" is true but you were implying that owning a home is not an investment, which it is. When properly accounted for most Americans make money on their homes...

So your statement is wrong, homes are an investment and if you consistently lose money on homes you are doing it wrong...

 

[JettaKnight]

Your statement: "Biggest fallacy popularly accepted: A home is an investment" is flat out wrong. It actually is one of the largest sources of savings and wealth for Americans.

Well, it's where the most of your money is tied up.

But, it's definitely not a source of wealth.



Let's ask the experts:
https://www.betterment.com/resources/buying-home-good-investment/
https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-your-house-is-not-an-investment
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/18/wealth-manager-buying-a-home-is-usually-a-terrible-investment.html
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/investing/real-estate/sorry-but-your-home-isnt-a-good-investment/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamieh...a-good-investment-its-a-service/#1460f7c75c9d

So your statement is wrong, homes are an investment and if you consistently lose money on homes you are doing it wrong...

I'm probably not the best guy to ask, but why are you so argumentative?



Can we all just agree that 30 year mortgages are terrible for everyone involved?

 

[gregkl]

It's always interesting how threads evolve.

 

[J Galt]

Where's the block button? Asking for a friend.

 

[gregkl]

Where's the block button? Asking for a friend.

View attachment 88400

LOL! Nice. I stay for awhile just to read the developments in threads. Eventually when it gets way off topic, I unsubscribe.

 

[J Galt]

LOL! Nice. I stay for awhile just to read the developments in threads. Eventually when it gets way off topic, I unsubscribe.

It seems to come off the rails about 3 pages in, on average.

I have to confess, I was at least partially responsible for it this time.

 

[BugI02]

"The competition is only so vicious because the rewards are so small"

 

[Ingomike]

Well, it's where the most of your money is tied up.

But, it's definitely not a source of wealth.



Let's ask the experts:
https://www.betterment.com/resources/buying-home-good-investment/
https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-your-house-is-not-an-investment
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/18/wealth-manager-buying-a-home-is-usually-a-terrible-investment.html
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/investing/real-estate/sorry-but-your-home-isnt-a-good-investment/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamieh...a-good-investment-its-a-service/#1460f7c75c9d



I'm probably not the best guy to ask, but why are you so argumentative?



Can we all just agree that 30 year mortgages are terrible for everyone involved?

And I can counter your experts with experts of differing opinions...

Homes are a source of "wealth" which is defined as "valuable financial assets or physical possessions which can be converted into a form that can be used for transactions." Calling it wealth does not imply it makes you very wealthy.

They never account for so many factors. Lets simplify this, if one wants it invest $100,000 in most investments they need $100,000. For around $5000 they can invest in a $100,000 home and "rent" it to themselves for a discount over what the rental market is for the years they live there. Then then any gain or loss should be based off the $5000 invested, not the total of payments that are effectively in leu of paying rent elsewhere.

Having watched Indiana real estate if a buyer makes good decisions going in the chances of the property going down in value are fairly low. Indiana real estate seems to recover well too. If one buys a home in Kokomo and a few months later GM announces a plant closure and 700 lost jobs, if you must sell, it will hurt, but it will recover as well if you are patient. Many areas of Indy lost value in the "dark ages" from 09-12, but then roared back more than recovering the appreciation not gained in those years. If one makes a move in the bad years they are doing it wrong or they need to have something more valuable to do it for.