The New Colt Python will be revealed at SHOT Show 2020! Old vs. New

[Bigtanker]

Midwest Guns in Mishawaka up North....

Midwest Gun Exchange and Range Specials | Now - January 23, 2020

If they're afraid to post the price it's probably too much.

I'm not positive but rumor is Midwest is selling them at $500 over MSRP.

 

[drillsgt]

I'm not positive but rumor is Midwest is selling them at $500 over MSRP.

Ha, they wouldn't be the only ones. You have to wait until the new gun furor settles down.

 

[Indynic]

Regarding these gun shops that are selling Pythons for over MSRP, there are a few ways to look at it.
1. More power to them if someone is willing to pay $500 over MSRP then have at it.
2. Seems pretty crappy that we finally get a Python at a pretty fair MSRP & the LGS are trying to price gouge.

LGS can do whatever they want, but I’ll be taking notes on who is trying to price gouge & I won’t be spending money there in the future.

 

[BE Mike]

Regarding these gun shops that are selling Pythons for over MSRP, there are a few ways to look at it.
1. More power to them if someone is willing to pay $500 over MSRP then have at it.
2. Seems pretty crappy that we finally get a Python at a pretty fair MSRP & the LGS are trying to price gouge.

LGS can do whatever they want, but I’ll be taking notes on who is trying to price gouge & I won’t be spending money there in the future.

Maybe I'm not up to date on the new Pythons, but why would someone pay $500 over MSRP for a handgun that apparently has been recalled for problems?

 

[Ingomike]

Regarding these gun shops that are selling Pythons for over MSRP, there are a few ways to look at it.
1. More power to them if someone is willing to pay $500 over MSRP then have at it.
2. Seems pretty crappy that we finally get a Python at a pretty fair MSRP & the LGS are trying to price gouge.

LGS can do whatever they want, but I’ll be taking notes on who is trying to price gouge & I won’t be spending money there in the future.

And those that have 40 year old models should sell them for what they paid for them. LOL

What way would you suggest a LGS allocate a scarce product? There just are not currently enough to go around for the demand. If one wants to be the first on INGO and at their club to brag they have one, they should pay for that ability to be first. The other way is for LGS to just sell them to their buddies. Would you think an auction more fair? I think it unfair to LGS's that are trying their best to get the product out the best they see fit to imply they are doing something immoral or wrong.

As for me, I think what you call gouging is the fairest and most efficient way to distribute them. Here's why. LGS gets 5 of them, prices them +$1000 over MSRP, sells out in 48 hours or less, those early adopters paid for the privilege of being first. Second batch of ten arrives, they sell one in a week, price lowered to +$500, sell out in 48 hours. That group also paid to be in the front but not as much as the first group. It continues this way with each group paying what they are comfortable with, until the market is met and then you will see discounting. Seems fair to me, early adopters are getting more than just the product, they are paying more for the prestige of being that guy that has one.

Want to be that guy pony up, but please do not malign local dealers doing their best to allocate a scarce product, the scarcity is likely a big headache for them, constant calls and negative comments for something they don't have, likely eat up any money above MSRP.

 

[BE Mike]

Want to be that guy pony up, but please do not malign local dealers doing their best to allocate a scarce product, the scarcity is likely a big headache for them, constant calls and negative comments for something they don't have, likely eat up any money above MSRP.

How magnanimous of the gun stores to charge an extra $500-$1,000 to see that the guns are distributed in a fair manner!

 

[Ingomike]

How magnanimous of the gun stores to charge an extra $500-$1,000 to see that the guns are distributed in a fair manner!

Then answer the question, how do you want them to do it? We want to hear your better way.

We talk about the same issues in the bourbon thread. This always comes up when demand exceeds supply. What does the S in MSRP stand for? All the whining about supporting the LGS does not want them to engage in capitalism? To sell their goods for what real market value is? Sometimes in life things are valued higher than their physical worth, in this case say to a similar Smith or Ruger.

Would it make you feel better if Colt had made the MSRP higher? But then in a year or two it would have looked like they were wrong and had to reprice the guns and get bad press. If Colt made the MSRP say twice that of the competition they would have been accused of gouging even though that price is a common price for their old used guns. What should Colt have set the MSRP?

If you own the goods how would you distribute them?

 

[BE Mike]

Then answer the question, how do you want them to do it? We want to hear your better way.

We talk about the same issues in the bourbon thread. This always comes up when demand exceeds supply. What does the S in MSRP stand for? All the whining about supporting the LGS does not want them to engage in capitalism? To sell their goods for what real market value is? Sometimes in life things are valued higher than their physical worth, in this case say to a similar Smith or Ruger.

Would it make you feel better if Colt had made the MSRP higher? But then in a year or two it would have looked like they were wrong and had to reprice the guns and get bad press. If Colt made the MSRP say twice that of the competition they would have been accused of gouging even though that price is a common price for their old used guns. What should Colt have set the MSRP?

If you own the goods how would you distribute them?

They do what they do and either suffer consequences for their actions or people won't care. Ethics should matter, I believe, but maybe that's just me. I know one thing, they don't need anyone carrying the banner for them. Why do you feel so compelled?

 

[Indynic]

Panties in a bunch, there Ingomike? Lol

I’d rather them put it up for auction. Let the fools race to part ways with their money. Having a current production item sitting on your shelf with a price $500 above MSRP looks bad.

There are plenty of LGS that have sold these new Pythons for 10% BELOW MSRP. BTW

A relationship is a two way street. Most times around this site, it’s “spend a little more & support your local LGS. Think long term.” Which I do. Well in this case, the LGS needs to think long term.

How many patient, loyal customers (that spend a little more on a regular basis) are passing up on that Python marked $500 over MSRP, so you can sell it to some fool with more money than brains that came running in the door “cause the Rick Grimes gun is being made again, derp.”

It’s tells me they have a short-sighted business model. That guy that just overpaid for a Python won’t be back to your LGS. Probably will only shoot it a handful of times & then never again once the luster of this hyped return wears off. Because that is simply the type of person that pays over MSRP for something that is currently available & will continue to be available in the near future.

 

[Ingomike]

They do what they do and either suffer consequences for their actions or people won't care. Ethics should matter, I believe, but maybe that's just me. I know one thing, they don't need anyone carrying the banner for them. Why do you feel so compelled?

I will try to answer your question. I believe the suggestion that a LGS selling the Python for a market value that is above MSRP is somehow doing something wrong or unethical is just completely unfair. They are just participating in capitalism and I fail to see how that is unethical. Some shops may have a different business models and sell at or even below MSRP, that too is their right. And no I do not expect to see a shop owner posting on here trying to set the record straight that it is not wrong nor unethical to sell at market value they would be mocked as self serving. I am just a member here, I have little relationship with any LGS, but believe they should be somewhat defended from accusations I do not believe them guilty of.

Why do you believe it is unethical?

 

[Ingomike]

Panties in a bunch, there Ingomike? Lol

I’d rather them put it up for auction. Let the fools race to part ways with their money. Having a current production item sitting on your shelf with a price $500 above MSRP looks bad.

There are plenty of LGS that have sold these new Pythons for 10% BELOW MSRP. BTW

A relationship is a two way street. Most times around this site, it’s “spend a little more & support your local LGS. Think long term.” Which I do. Well in this case, the LGS needs to think long term.

How many patient, loyal customers (that spend a little more on a regular basis) are passing up on that Python marked $500 over MSRP, so you can sell it to some fool with more money than brains that came running in the door “cause the Rick Grimes gun is being made again, derp.”

It’s tells me they have a short-sighted business model. That guy that just overpaid for a Python won’t be back to your LGS. Probably will only shoot it a handful of times & then never again once the luster of this hyped return wears off. Because that is simply the type of person that pays over MSRP for something that is currently available & will continue to be available in the near future.

I'm certainly not upset in any way, as I explained above just think it unfair to accuse shops that sell them at market value of gouging.

I'm trying to figure out just why it "looks bad" for LGS selling their goods at market value. Do the guys selling old Pythons for $3-5K look bad? They certainly did not pay that much for them. Are they gouging?

Every LGS has the right to operate the way they want, some want to play just the way you describe, sell at or maybe below MSRP even though we all know the market is much more than that. And if the store has more relationship customers that want the guns than they get, how is it fairest to allocate the guns? I also have no problem with the stores that offer their repeat customers first crack at them over a guy they have never met but that is not the only way to do it, neither way is wrong.

BTW, I'm not believing there are many currently on the rack for sale at less than MSRP, pre-orders are a different story.

Oh, now you get to the crux of the matter, TV made the product so famous, that a market exists that you don't like, me either, but it is a legitimate market and if a gun shop wants to work that market why should people be able to call them unethical and the like for servicing that market. I'll tell you that significant interest in this thread is driven by the cool factor that TV created, don't be naive.

And when that Walking Dead buyer tires of his purchase that costs too much to feed ammo through I'll be watching for the ad and the market will not give that kind of price.

Should add, they will list it on Armslist for a year at what they paid for it. LOL

 

[Indynic]

I'm certainly not upset in any way, as I explained above just think it unfair to accuse shops that sell them at market value of gouging.

I'm trying to figure out just why it "looks bad" for LGS selling their goods at market value. Do the guys selling old Pythons for $3-5K look bad? They certainly did not pay that much for them. Are they gouging?

You are comparing apples to oranges. A Python made prior to 2020 has not been in production for quite some time, which makes it a collector piece which drives the value. Any way you look at though, it’s a USED gun. An LGS doesn’t have to be a Colt dealer to have these on the shelf & MSRP simply doesn’t apply.

These new Pythons are current production, brand new from the factory. They have an MSRP. And yes, it is “suggested.” But, in many cases manufacturers have a policy that if you sell their products above MSRP, you could risk losing dealer status. So, “suggested,” is more like “strongly suggested.”

MSRP is not established to limit how much money a seller can make on an item. It is to ensure that the intended market is captured because the item is designed at that price point. So, by selling at above MSRP, Colt is missing out on its intended market.

This puts future sales at risk, all so an LGS can make some additional profit margin. Once again, an LGS that does this has a short-sighted business model.

 

[BE Mike]

I will try to answer your question. I believe the suggestion that a LGS selling the Python for a market value that is above MSRP is somehow doing something wrong or unethical is just completely unfair. They are just participating in capitalism and I fail to see how that is unethical. Some shops may have a different business models and sell at or even below MSRP, that too is their right. And no I do not expect to see a shop owner posting on here trying to set the record straight that it is not wrong nor unethical to sell at market value they would be mocked as self serving. I am just a member here, I have little relationship with any LGS, but believe they should be somewhat defended from accusations I do not believe them guilty of.

Why do you believe it is unethical?

I think it is unethical because it is. It is also unethical to pay a little old lady pennies on the dollar for the collection that her late husband accumulated. I wouldn't want my shop to have that kind of reputation. I would rather have the reputation that I owned a fair shop. Indynic has it right. Like I said before, companies that unreasonably raised their prices during ammo shortages, earned a reputation. I remember and won't buy anything from them.

 

[utahskies]

Never much of a wheel gun fan.

M 60 in a Ankle holster was a no go.

 

[Ingomike]

You are comparing apples to oranges. A Python made prior to 2020 has not been in production for quite some time, which makes it a collector piece which drives the value. Any way you look at though, it’s a USED gun. An LGS doesn’t have to be a Colt dealer to have these on the shelf & MSRP simply doesn’t apply.

Oh, so if you own one you can sell it for market value but a gun store cannot sell it for what it is worth. I'm comparing the same model gun that has a following, for good or bad, that drive up prices. Good for me but not for thee...

These new Pythons are current production, brand new from the factory. They have an MSRP. And yes, it is “suggested.” But, in many cases manufacturers have a policy that if you sell their products above MSRP, you could risk losing dealer status. So, “suggested,” is more like “strongly suggested.”

What you are are suggesting is illegal, called price fixing. What that means is the US government will not let the manufacturer of goods determine what price they are sold for. That is why it is a suggested price, but thankfully, that law exists. You have benefited greatly from it by allowing dealers to sell at the price they determine not the manufacturer because usually the price goes down, not up.

MSRP is not established to limit how much money a seller can make on an item. It is to ensure that the intended market is captured because the item is designed at that price point. So, by selling at above MSRP, Colt is missing out on its intended market.

This puts future sales at risk, all so an LGS can make some additional profit margin. Once again, an LGS that does this has a short-sighted business model.

None of that supersedes the price fixing laws,

This whole thing is probably just a PIA for many LGS, they have what they do to make money, this ridiculous attention and demand, caused by a TV show, disrupts business as usual. Several here have been calling around, not sure if they are buyers or not, asking if the store has them, just that takes the stores time, they also have to deal with the show fans that even just want to hold "Ricks gun". Then the store has to figure out how to sell the few they get. Take flack from people like you because you don't like how they chose to do it.

I'm sorry for those that saw the MSRP and thought finally I can afford a Python in a few weeks, only to have that dream dashed by the reality of the market, markets can be harsh.

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to point out that my opinion is you are being unfair to the shops about this unusual situation...

 

[M67]

These new Pythons are current production, brand new from the factory. They have an MSRP. And yes, it is “suggested.” But, in many cases manufacturers have a policy that if you sell their products above MSRP, you could risk losing dealer status. So, “suggested,” is more like “strongly suggested.”

MSRP is not established to limit how much money a seller can make on an item. It is to ensure that the intended market is captured because the item is designed at that price point. So, by selling at above MSRP, Colt is missing out on its intended market.

This puts future sales at risk, all so an LGS can make some additional profit margin. Once again, an LGS that does this has a short-sighted business model.

First time I've heard of selling above MSRP can risk any dealer status. Most manufactures probably would be glad to see someone make money on their product and not sell it for $10 above wholesale which just degrades the perceived value of a product.

When dealers get someone hard to get in and just post it up on GB and let people bid on it, that shows current market value. Why would a shop not post theirs online and sell it for whatever they can get than to have it in the store, get handled by everyone, and then have someone try to knock you down and down and down for price?

Making money when you can isn't bad. Most individuals sell things based on supply and demand too. It's okay for individuals to make money but for a shop to make money on 1 gun while they have dead inventory they can't get rid of and only way to sell it is to lose money is somehow evil?

 

[Ingomike]

I think it is unethical because it is. It is also unethical to pay a little old lady pennies on the dollar for the collection that her late husband accumulated. I wouldn't want my shop to have that kind of reputation. I would rather have the reputation that I owned a fair shop. Indynic has it right. Like I said before, companies that unreasonably raised their prices during ammo shortages, earned a reputation. I remember and won't buy anything from them.

I fail to see the correlation between ripping off unknowing little old ladies and a willing purchaser from a retail store. I will give you this, I believe you to be a very nicely intentioned person, but your understanding of economics is weak.

Scarce resources must be allocated some way, I prefer to let the market allocate by price. You believe for some reason this is unethical.

You belive that MSRP should be followed, a form of price fixing. What will the end result be? Oh yes, buyers with no intention of owning a Python will buy them to resell at the real market value, maybe doubling their investment. Brand new ones will appear for sale everywhere, Armslist will be full of them. Please don't be so naive that you think all those MSRP are being sold to enthusiasts, many are going to resellers. So now our friends must purchase from a reseller. Buying from a reseller cuts out the LGS from a relationship, makes warranty claims more difficult, the shop loses the accessories sales, the list goes on. Do you really think this is a better way?

The he thinking that a shop selling at market value that happens to be above MSRP is doing something unethical is just not sound economically and very unfair.

 

[Indynic]

Directly from the Federal Trade Commission Website:
”The key word is "suggested." A dealer is free to set the retail price of the products it sells. A dealer can set the price at the MSRPor at a different price, as long as the dealer comes to that decision on its own. However, the manufacturer can decide not to use distributors that do not adhere to its MSRP.”

 

[Ingomike]

Directly from the Federal Trade Commission Website:
”The key word is "suggested." A dealer is free to set the retail price of the products it sells. A dealer can set the price at the MSRPor at a different price, as long as the dealer comes to that decision on its own. However, the manufacturer can decide not to use distributors that do not adhere to its MSRP.”

And that is generally about discounting. If you do not see by now that it is not unethical there is likely nothing I can say to change your mind. You got anything on my posts? The market is what it is it does not bend to your personal definition of morality. Do you not see any of my points on how the market works? Is it just fine with you that resellers are buying them to resell? Do you really think a dealer selling at market value is unethical but the dealer selling to resellers is just fine?

 

[Hookeye]

Want a new Python when they're in short supply?
Pay whatever the market says. Or not.

IMHO have some patience and pay 1500 (or less) when the silly settles down.

MSRP is 1500.
Im a patient person. Wont go over MSRP.
Dunno how long I will have to wait.

Have seen one so far, and it sold for 1500.
Dealer said there wasn't much markup either.