The patriot act

[ModernGunner]

Guess the biggest question is, how many INGO'ers have read every word of the Patriot Act before speaking out, before or against?

 

[turnandshoot4]

Fair enough, but it would be enlightening to hear from the True Defenders of Liberty where our INGO heroes are on this.

If only they cared about Liberty to tell us.

I called both senators today. If only we could get our INGO heroes to engage politically. Don't even get me started on training.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Guess the biggest question is, how many INGO'ers have read every word of the Patriot Act before speaking out, before or against?

I have read enough to know it is bad for freedom.

 

[PaulF]

Guess the biggest question is, how many INGO'ers have read every word of the Patriot Act before speaking out, before or against?

Exactly the same number of our lawmakers that read it before they voted into the law of the land...Zero.

Remember, the final bill was not delivered to congress from the Executive Branch until a few hours before the vote...a vote that was heavily influenced by last-minute deal-making (business as usual, I imagine). The similarities between how USAPATRIOT and ACA were passed are striking, and I think emblematic of the larger problem at play in American politics. Obama and Bush...the same, just cogs in a machine. Sure, you can replace the cogs, but the machine continues to steam along, uninterrupted.

 

[Henry]

Sometimes a wrench in the gears is a good thing.

 

[ModernGunner]

I have read enough to know it is bad for freedom.

So, you haven't read it. Fair enough.

Exactly the same number of our lawmakers that read it before they voted into the law of the land...Zero.

LOL, well I know one who has.

Typically, it's best to have read the material, top to bottom / front to back, in context, and comprehend it before presuming the 'goodness' or 'badness' of it. An 'informed view', by it definition, requires information.

Most do not. Most read the 'Cliff Notes' version, and presume 'Cliff's' viewpoint is 'correct'. That may, or may not, be true.

The best example of this appears to be the First Amendment's reference to freedom of religion. Which many have presumed to interpret as a 'separation of Church and State'. Doesn't say that. And it doesn't say a Christmas tree or Manger scene can't be displayed on the 'courthouse lawn' at Christmas time. In truth, it states quite the opposite.

Tunnel vision almost always provides only a limited view. And viewpoint.

 

[88GT]

Safe to say you support it then?

 

[turnandshoot4]

So, you haven't read it. Fair enough.

LOL, well I know one who has.

Typically, it's best to have read the material, top to bottom / front to back, in context, and comprehend it before presuming the 'goodness' or 'badness' of it. An 'informed view', by it definition, requires information.

Most do not. Most read the 'Cliff Notes' version, and presume 'Cliff's' viewpoint is 'correct'. That may, or may not, be true.

The best example of this appears to be the First Amendment's reference to freedom of religion. Which many have presumed to interpret as a 'separation of Church and State'. Doesn't say that. And it doesn't say a Christmas tree or Manger scene can't be displayed on the 'courthouse lawn' at Christmas time. In truth, it states quite the opposite.

Tunnel vision almost always provides only a limited view. And viewpoint.

The violation of the Posse Comitaus Act is plenty for me. The FISA court is another. You know, where the government spies on it's own people illegally and then lies about it (also illegal) to a congressional panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsmo0hUWJ08

 

[jbombelli]

I've given up the fight. F' it. The United States will get exactly what the people want and deserve. And that's more Patriot Act.

You all refuse to vote these clowns out and I just don't care anymore. And by "you all" I mean the vast majority of this country, including a lot of INGOers.

I'm buying ammo.

 

[turnandshoot4]

"If our aim is to degrade and destroy ISIL, as the president has said, then that's going to require smart policies and firm determination. At a minimum, we shouldn't be doing anything to make the situation worse," McConnell said.

Statist Republicans still at it.

 

[seedubs1]

And who would you suggest we vote for? Seems like both parties are all for the patriot act. Personally, I voted Libertarian because I think our 2 party system is a scam. A vote when your only options are two turd sandwiches is worthless.

I've given up the fight. F' it. The United States will get exactly what the people want and deserve. And that's more Patriot Act.

You all refuse to vote these clowns out and I just don't care anymore. And by "you all" I mean the vast majority of this country, including a lot of INGOers.

I'm buying ammo.

 

[HoughMade]

Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty Rand Paul is the only hope for Liberty

You're in marketing aren't you. Say it enough times, people will believe it with evidence?