The Sad But True Pictures Thread

[Hoosierdood]

THIS!

That's just ridiculous. You're making statements of motive you have no idea about. Seriously? Because I don't give a ****? How could you possibly know what I give a **** about? And no, it's not like saying I love MY kid, but if other kids die, no biggie. That's utterly absurd. You need a lot more bank to cash checks that big.

You should seek to understand other people's viewpoint before you assume their motives. This is exactly what the ideologically possessed anti-gun zealot's do. This is the attitude that allows people to say that NRA members have the blood of shooting victims on their hands. They believe all kinds of evil things about gun owners, because they can't or won't understand gun owners worldview, and so they attribute their own moral standards to them, and then the moral conclusion they draw from that is that gun owners must be evil.

Now let's be clear so that no panties are twisted, I'm not saying you're just like anti-gun zealots. It's just an example of how things go awry when applying one's own personal, moral reasoning, to everyone else. I'm saying you can't assume that because someone disagrees with you about the morality of an outcome, that the moral conclusion has to point to some immoral thinking on their part. Maybe it's not a moral absolute as much as you think it is. It's not YOUR perspective that I'm following. It is my own.

I don't believe euthanasia is immoral in all circumstances. I don't know the circumstances under which those dogs in the photo were euthanized. It may have been the most humane outcome wrought as a consequence of irresponsible people. Which is sad. And in which case, the sad thing is that irresponsible people caused it to come to that point where euthanasia is the most human achievable outcome.

 

[2A_Tom]

If the dogs (and cats) are so overpopulated that you cannot find homes for them, what do you do with them.

Sure, spay and neuter your pets. That is not a viable solution for the millions of unwanted/abused/abandoned animals out there.

None of the animals in the picture you posted were adopted within the time constraints allowed bu the shelter's BUDGET. If that seems cold to you then you are the one person that can help, by donating millions for food, water, and facilities to change the fiscal outlook.

I have taken a couple from litters, but am beyond it.

Euthanasia is the only solution and it is not keeping up, because people that care more about animals...

 

[patience0830]

Wow. Just wow.

Much more reasoned support than I expected. Thought I might have been a little too direct for the dog lovers this morning. Been guilty of that b4. I'm just tired of hearing, "my dog is smarter than your kid!", which while stupid on the very face of it, some folks insist on believing. And I'm guessing about 50% of the time it's out of the mouth of someone who doesn't care if their dog is all over the countryside causing havoc in other folks livestock or running deer under my stand during bow season. Daddyusmaximus's heart is in the right place and good on him for trying to convince people to spay and neuter. Bob Barker harped on it for years on a much more public platform and the problem still exists. Picking on this small band here is probably not solving the majority of the problem.

But his heart is in the right place,. . . .sort of.

 

[Herr Vogel]

[snip]
Euthanasia is the only solution
[/snip]

No it's not?
Sterilize the females, notch their ears, release into the wild, let nature take its course.
Otherwise you're just supporting an endless chain of turning Fido into Fertilizer.

Edit: Had to look up the name of the place.
For proof that catch-and-kill doesn't work, look into the attempts to exterminate the feral cat population at Macquarie Island.

Edit2: Also Marion Island

 

[patience0830]

No it's not?
Sterilize the females, notch their ears, release into the wild, let nature take its course.
Otherwise you're just supporting an endless chain of turning Fido into Fertilizer.

Edit: Had to look up the name of the place.
For proof that catch-and-kill doesn't work, look into the attempts to exterminate the feral cat population at Macquarie Island.

Edit2: Also Marion Island

Why would you release them into the wild to do more damage once you've caught that part of the problem? Waste of a spay when you can just euthanize the problem.

 

[2A_Tom]

Catch, spay a

nd release.

 

[2A_Tom]

I almost got the ban hammer the last time this conversation came up.

It seems you can post pics of euthanized dogs but not mutilated babies.

 

[jamil]

I almost got the ban hammer the last time this conversation came up.

It seems you can post pics of euthanized dogs but not mutilated babies.

Which kinda reflects a moral difference between humans and dogs.

 

[2A_Tom]

Yeah, killing dogs is bad.

 

[Herr Vogel]

Why would you release them into the wild to do more damage once you've caught that part of the problem? Waste of a spay when you can just euthanize the problem.

The Vacuum Effect.

Say you've got a population of stray dogs somewhere. They've obviously got some source of food keeping them alive, whether it be handouts, digging through garbage cans, or other critters.
So you round up as many as you can and kill them. One, you're never going to have a 100% success rate in catching them, even assuming a closed environment like the islands I mentioned, and the ones that slip through the cracks will continue to breed. Two, the now mostly depopulated area is still lush with the necessities of life, and will immediately be repopulated by critters either coming from elsewhere if not the descendants of the ones you didn't kill.
This is what creates the insurmountable problem 2A_Tom described. You could kill animals by the truckload, all day every day, and it will never be enough.

Or you can trap, sterilize, and release. This method ensures that the population growth is checked while simultaneously preventing other critters from filling the void.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The Sad But True Pictures Discussion Thread

 

[Nazgul]

I almost got the ban hammer the last time this conversation came up.

It seems you can post pics of euthanized dogs but not mutilated babies.

Which points the dichotomy of moral values in the modern world. I am constantly amazed at how we arrived here.

Just read an article about a woman arrested for stomping a sea turtle nest. Pretty sure she will see the inside of a fed prison. Now if she had aborted a dozen babies...…………………………….

Don

 

[2A_Tom]

It is a federal crime for a non aboriginal American to be in possession of an American eagle FEATHER.

 

[Spear Dane]

 

[rhino]

That girl may never realize that what she posted is far more racist than what she is attributing to others in her blanket accusation of "white supremacy."

 

[spencer rifle]

The Vacuum Effect.

Say you've got a population of stray dogs somewhere. They've obviously got some source of food keeping them alive, whether it be handouts, digging through garbage cans, or other critters.
So you round up as many as you can and kill them. One, you're never going to have a 100% success rate in catching them, even assuming a closed environment like the islands I mentioned, and the ones that slip through the cracks will continue to breed. Two, the now mostly depopulated area is still lush with the necessities of life, and will immediately be repopulated by critters either coming from elsewhere if not the descendants of the ones you didn't kill.
This is what creates the insurmountable problem 2A_Tom described. You could kill animals by the truckload, all day every day, and it will never be enough.

Or you can trap, sterilize, and release. This method ensures that the population growth is checked while simultaneously preventing other critters from filling the void.

Nope on a rope. It is NOT an insurmountable problem. There have been numerous successes of extirpation of invasive exotic animals in island situations - goats on Catalina Island being the one I was most recently made aware of. Here's another:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/05/south-georgia-island-rat-free-animals-spd/

For those of us in the nature field, the collateral damage to native wildlife caused by invasive exotics (cats, dogs, etc.) is unacceptable. The catch, spay and release people like Alley Cat Allies are apparently OK with the millions (yes millions) of native birds and mammals that are killed by these feral animals. I guess because white-crowned sparrows and snakes and wood rats are not cute and cuddly and famous in videos. Sterilized animals do not ensure other animals will not move in, since the sterilized animals tend to have brutal and short lives, all the while destroying wildlife, occupying a niche that belonged to native animals, and eventually dying, to be replaced by other exotics. The vacuum happens anyway eventually, and wildlife still pays the price.
If you don't care about native wildlife, this could be an acceptable approach. As for me, I will continue to kill any any feral "pets" found in my park.

 

[actaeon277]

That girl may never realize that what she posted is far more racist than what she is attributing to others in her blanket accusation of "white supremacy."

Yup.

 

[patience0830]

Nope on a rope. It is NOT an insurmountable problem. There have been numerous successes of extirpation of invasive exotic animals in island situations - goats on Catalina Island being the one I was most recently made aware of. Here's another:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/05/south-georgia-island-rat-free-animals-spd/

For those of us in the nature field, the collateral damage to native wildlife caused by invasive exotics (cats, dogs, etc.) is unacceptable. The catch, spay and release people like Alley Cat Allies are apparently OK with the millions (yes millions) of native birds and mammals that are killed by these feral animals. I guess because white-crowned sparrows and snakes and wood rats and not cute and cuddly and famous in videos. Sterilized animals do not ensure other animals will not move in, since the sterilized animals tend to have brutal and short lives, all the while destroying wildlife, occupying a niche that belonged to native animals, and eventually dying, to be replaced by other exotics. The vacuum happens anyway eventually, and wildlife still pays the price.
If you don't care about native wildlife, this could be an acceptable approach. As for me, I will continue to kill any any feral "pets" found in my park.

I'm with you, SR. And I'm starting to get a feel for where the vacuum is.

 

[JettaKnight]

"Livestock" is cattle, goats, sheep...

A dog is "Man's best friend."

Humankind would not be where they are were it not for the dog, or the horse.

Although ANY mammal is edible, (including humans) we did not domesticate the wolf for food. The dog is intended to live alongside us as a working partner, and in modern society a loved family pet.

The reason we can do bad things to each other, is because we can so easily do bad things to what is supposed to be our best friends.

This is also a part of that breakdown of society that leads to all the crap that probably sticks in your craw... so you can feel morally superior...

It's not murder because they're not human, but neither are they "livestock". It does, however, indicate the exact same lack or morals as another hot topic... abortion. They are killed for convenience, and economy simply because they are not wanted.

The dog is a worker, like a horse, and some misguided people consider them pets. I personally have moral qualms with folks who keep Siberian Huskies in their suburban home... but that's another issue.


Like all animals, plants, and minerals it's position on my plate is determined by my hunger, it's flavor, and availability in a supermarket or restaurant.



As to catch, neuter, release, I love it. I have a stealthy hunter to kill rodents and rabbits in my yard at no cost to me. The cat is quite content and well fed, not a "brutal and short live" as SR describes it. Of course, that works because cats aren't really domesticated like dogs.

 

[HoughMade]

I have non-invasive coyotes that care for the excess rodent population around me....but I understand that this is a less-than-optimal solution in many places.