The Skilled Labor Crisis

[Rookie]

My son is 15, and I've been encouraging him to go into trades when he graduates. Traditional college is becoming a waste of time and money unless you're willing to go into major debt since a four year degree is practically worthless. I think skilled trades will be able to name their price in the next 5-10 years.

 

[red_zr24x4]

My son is starting his third year in a five year apprenticeship program for the Plumber/Steamfitters union and I couldn't be more proud of him! He will be 24 years old when he gets his journeymen's card. At 24 years old his earning potential will be over 6 figures a year. He works Monday through Friday and during the school year they pay for his classes at night so when he is done he will have zero student debt. It amazes me that there isn't a line miles long waiting to put in applications for this program. He works his butt off everyday (he has been putting in 10 hour days for the past month and working 7 days a week due to being behind schedule on his current job site but normally works a 40 hour work week) and is earning his paycheck! I just can't understand anyone not willing to work for the opportunity to be financially secure.

You answered your own question in the last line, Willing to work.
Good for your son, I've been a fitter for 18 years. Tell him to take every cert the union has if he thinks it will help him in any way. I have never done anything but Gas Distribution work. Gas mains and services.
The problems with most kids today is 1) they don't want to work 2) They think they should be paid top dollar starting out, and dont want to start at the bottom.

 

[Leadeye]

Nobody wants to work around chemicals these days after years of big media sensationalism. After retiring I found I could make as much working part time as a consultant as I did full time before. Try to pass on some of that experience but nobody is interested. Maybe it's the hours, you have to be there when manufacturing starts running and that's often early.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I'm on pace to pull down $90k this year and I change freakin light bulbs!

 

[churchmouse]

I'm on pace to pull down $90k this year and I change freakin light bulbs!

Yeah but your skill sets far exceed this one small piece of the puzzle.

Being in the trades all of my life I have learned to do just about any and everything you can do with the proper tooling.
20 years out of the hall and 30 years before that really working the trades.
I often wonder how folks survive having to pay for everything in this life.

Participation trophy's and self esteem classes.....nuff said.

 

[CHCRandy]

Yeah, I remember about 10-15 years ago when I went to an open house at my daughters school. I went to this same school and when we went into the woodworking/shop class there were no tools! The shop teacher was still the same teacher I had when I went to that school 20 years earlier. I asked him where all the woodworking tools, shop tools and metal working tools were and he said we don't build birdhouses and such anymore. I asked him what the hell a woodworking class is that don't build a wooden project? He informed me that shop was now computers and all they did was CAD design and such....but didn't build the project. I asked why's that? He said, "They don't want our kids to be taught to work with their hands, but instead wanted them to be able to design it with their brains"....me being a build it type guy who makes my living swinging a hammer, it didn't sit real well with me. I told him that was silly, someone still needs to build the damn thing.

At least I think that has changed over the last several years. I know you can now take trades at Ben Davis and some other larger schools. My nephew just graduated high school in Southport and he graduated as a certified welder where he had taken classes for all 4 years of high school. Ben Davis has the same thing for home construction, where the students build a house under the instruction of a professional carpenter. It may not be much, but at least they know how to use their brains and have a small example of what they will need to know to survive. I can tell you first hand, nothing is worse than the architects and engineers we deal with today in the construction industry. They are great at drawing plans but they have no idea how it works in the field, because most of them never worked in the field. If I had a $1 for every $100 in over runs these guys cost....I would be rich! They draw homes and just do silly stuff. Like having a chimney in a valley, or stairways that you hit your head on the ceiling or no room for landing, overhangs hitting tops of windows, concrete safe rooms in basements under a bathroom with no plumbing access. This is stuff they should know, but they just know how to draw it with no idea how to "assemble" it.

Geeze I rambled on there. Rant over.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah, I remember about 10-15 years ago when I went to an open house at my daughters school. I went to this same school and when we went into the woodworking/shop class there were no tools! The shop teacher was still the same teacher I had when I went to that school 20 years earlier. I asked him where all the woodworking tools, shop tools and metal working tools were and he said we don't build birdhouses and such anymore. I asked him what the hell a woodworking class is that don't build a wooden project? He informed me that shop was now computers and all they did was CAD design and such....but didn't build the project. I asked why's that? He said, "They don't want our kids to be taught to work with their hands, but instead wanted them to be able to design it with their brains"....me being a build it type guy who makes my living swinging a hammer, it didn't sit real well with me. I told him that was silly, someone still needs to build the damn thing.

At least I think that has changed over the last several years. I know you can now take trades at Ben Davis and some other larger schools. My nephew just graduated high school in Southport and he graduated as a certified welder where he had taken classes for all 4 years of high school. Ben Davis has the same thing for home construction, where the students build a house under the instruction of a professional carpenter. It may not be much, but at least they know how to use their brains and have a small example of what they will need to know to survive. I can tell you first hand, nothing is worse than the architects and engineers we deal with today in the construction industry. They are great at drawing plans but they have no idea how it works in the field, because most of them never worked in the field. If I had a $1 for every $100 in over runs these guys cost....I would be rich! They draw homes and just do silly stuff. Like having a chimney in a valley, or stairways that you hit your head on the ceiling or no room for landing, overhangs hitting tops of windows, concrete safe rooms in basements under a bathroom with no plumbing access. This is stuff they should know, but they just know how to draw it with no idea how to "assemble" it.

Geeze I rambled on there. Rant over.

Randy.....the computers do a lot of the drawing these days. The person in front of the screen does not catch any of these issues as they think the Comp.will do it all for them.

And yes, someone has to build it but not here. They will build it off shore or south of the Rio Grande.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Don't get me started on engineers

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

On the flip side, maybe employers shouldn't make the requirements for an entry level job the following:

1) Three PhD's
2) Ten years experience
3) Fluent in Albanian

Pay: $14 an hour

Benefits: None

This is becoming common practice in my profession. The people aren't getting lazier, the companies hiring are. I can't tell you how many $35,000 a year jobs I've been turned down on because the hiring company has outlandish requirements

 

[jasonh31]

It's a combination of people not wanting to work and companies wanting people to work for less. I started 10 years ago as a temp worker for more than today's Temps make.

 

[Bigtanker]

Don't get me started on engineers

My dad spent a few decades building RV's. He then learned how to design them. The last few decades, he has honed his craft using the knowledge he gained building the stuff. He has a high paying job for a major RV supplier. He can retire any day he wants to but every time he mentions it, they throw more money his way.

A while back they wanted him to "train" the youngsters just out of college how to problem solve. He says they rely almost totally on the computer. He made the suggestion to teach the laborers engineering. In the few they have brought up, it looks like it will be success.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A while back they wanted him to "train" the youngsters just out of college how to problem solve. He says they rely almost totally on the computer. He made the suggestion to teach the laborers engineering. In the few they have brought up, it looks like it will be success.

And I bet they will be more loyal to the company as well. It's kind of amazing what happens when companies look out for and invest in their workers and the workers are worth investing in.

 

[russc2542]

But it gets more diversity points in the business magazines if you hire engineers out of college from other countries on Visas. Sarcastic but not untrue. /thought because this is a public venue.

How to fix the local work ethic/motivation thing: get rid of all the stuff we always complain about: participation trophies and underwater-basket-weaving degrees, get rid of the warning labels on lawnmowers saying anyone under 21 shouldn't be within 50' of it (I was mowing the hard on a riding mower when I was 6!-dad was nearby but I was in control). Tell kids to get a job rather than providing everything, or at the very least make them balance a budget! Oh and undo 30 or 40 years of marketing by the higher education industry. There's absolutely a place for going to school but it isn't for all, doesn't work in all fields, and it doesn't solve all problems.

 

[red_zr24x4]

My dad spent a few decades building RV's. He then learned how to design them. The last few decades, he has honed his craft using the knowledge he gained building the stuff. He has a high paying job for a major RV supplier. He can retire any day he wants to but every time he mentions it, they throw more money his way.

A while back they wanted him to "train" the youngsters just out of college how to problem solve. He says they rely almost totally on the computer. He made the suggestion to teach the laborers engineering. In the few they have brought up, it looks like it will be success.

I'm a firm believer that Engineers should have to work out in the field / shop for at least 2 yrs before being allowed to design anything.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I'm a firm believer that Engineers should have to work out in the field / shop for at least 2 yrs before being allowed to design anything.

As an engineer I completely agree with this!!! Engineers NEED hands-on experience.

Can you believe that recently the manager for an entire working group of engineers (the mgr is an engineer himself) criticized the thought of creating a hands-on learning program for engineers? His comments were, "Why the heck do they want to have engineers doing that? It's not their job, it's not what they're good at, and somebody is going to get hurt". Know what? They weren't good at it, one of them did get hurt (minor, Band-Aid level injury), and it wasn't their job. But they learned more about manufacturability in a 4 week hands-on training class than they could learn in years sitting behind a computer screen.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I'm a firm believer that Engineers should have to work out in the field / shop for at least 2 yrs before being allowed to design anything.

As an engineer I completely agree with this!!! Engineers NEED hands-on experience.

Can you believe that recently the manager for an entire working group of engineers (the mgr is an engineer himself) criticized the thought of creating a hands-on learning program for engineers? His comments were, "Why the heck do they want to have engineers doing that? It's not their job, it's not what they're good at, and somebody is going to get hurt". Know what? They weren't good at it, one of them did get hurt (minor, Band-Aid level injury), and it wasn't their job. But they learned more about manufacturability in a 4 week hands-on training class than they could learn in years sitting behind a computer screen.

 

[Tactically Fat]

As an engineer I completely agree with this!!! Engineers NEED hands-on experience.

Can you believe that recently the manager for an entire working group of engineers (the mgr is an engineer himself) criticized the thought of creating a hands-on learning program for engineers? His comments were, "Why the heck do they want to have engineers doing that? It's not their job, it's not what they're good at, and somebody is going to get hurt". Know what? They weren't good at it, one of them did get hurt (minor, Band-Aid level injury), and it wasn't their job. But they learned more about manufacturability in a 4 week hands-on training class than they could learn in years sitting behind a computer screen.

It isn't just mechanical / design / electrical engineers that need field work, either.

How many times have we (INGOers...everyone else) complained about how damned difficult it is to change a simple XYZ part on a car? Take the whole front bumper off of a Silverado just to change the headlights/bulbs? Remove a wheel and fender liner for a battery? HOWEVER - in those instances, they're practically mandated to design in that manner in order to meet requirements that they're tied to (weight distribution, physical dimensions, etc)

But I also ran into it when I was a geologist for INDOT. The geotechnical engineers would ask us to do core samplings at specific locations for an upcoming project. Lo and behold, when we'd get to the job site to put out our sample location stakes/paint/flags/ribbons/etc, there'd be plain-as-day physical evidence of why our sample location couldn't be done in that spot. Easy to spot overhead power lines (which precluded us from raising the mast of our machine), a series of manhole covers running down the side of the road indicating buried utilities of some kind), a house or other private property that we couldn't gain access to, and on and on and on. So I'd get back to the office and then tell the project engineer that I had to modify the sample locations, they'd sometimes look at me as if I were stupid for doing so. I'd ask them if they'd been out to see the site with their own eyes. "No...". Well, if you had, you'd know that you placed the sample locations in spots that just aren't possible due to the above issues. Used to drive me crazy.

 

[indiucky]

On the other hand, when I was in school I learned a lot more than just the engineering, science, and math.

[video=youtube;AHppmhyNx8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHppmhyNx8M[/video]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How many times have we (INGOers...everyone else) complained about how damned difficult it is to change a simple XYZ part on a car? Take the whole front bumper off of a Silverado just to change the headlights/bulbs? Remove a wheel and fender liner for a battery? HOWEVER - in those instances, they're practically mandated to design in that manner in order to meet requirements that they're tied to (weight distribution, physical dimensions, etc)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always figured they designed it for whatever was best for the manufacturing process, not repairs/maintenance. Kind of a win-win for the car company. Cheaper to manufacture = better margins. Harder to repair = fewer people who can do it = more people using the service center at the dealership. Longer repairs = more billable hours.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always figured they designed it for whatever was best for the manufacturing process, not repairs/maintenance. Kind of a win-win for the car company. Cheaper to manufacture = better margins. Harder to repair = fewer people who can do it = more people using the service center at the dealership. Longer repairs = more billable hours.

Haha, that could be, the above mentioned mgr that criticized the hands-on training is an ex-engineer for a large auto-maker...