The Story of Two Guns That Killed Police Officers

[jdhaines]

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Saw this story linked in a thread at another forum for a discussion of size/strength vs speed/skills and thought it was absolutely insane. They act like the guns are simply a disease that will eventually find it's way to an unsuspecting police officer and kill him given enough time. The media makes me sick.

 

[Michiana]

Read it differntly

I thought the article was an educational teaching tool for gun owners to be alert as to who you sell a gun to. If this can happen when a gun is purchased from a FFL imaging with no background check the opportunity for disaster if you are not cautious who you are dealing with. Reading about two police officer being shot and killed in the line of duty due to scum bags illegally acquiring firearms is not, in my opinion a subject to make jokes about. I did not read it as the media blaming the guns at all; they were detailing the travels of two firearms illegally purchased by lying to the FFL and filling out a false 4473 form and how these sales resulted in the death of two innocent people.

 

[Caleb]

Stupid speaks again...stupid is, stupid does

 

[GlockRock]

I thought the article was an educational teaching tool for gun owners to be alert as to who you sell a gun to. If this can happen when a gun is purchased from a FFL imaging with no background check the opportunity for disaster if you are not cautious who you are dealing with. Reading about two police officer being shot and killed in the line of duty due to scum bags illegally acquiring firearms is not, in my opinion a subject to make jokes about. I did not read it as the media blaming the guns at all; they were detailing the travels of two firearms illegally purchased by lying to the FFL and filling out a false 4473 form and how these sales resulted in the death of two innocent people.

This is how I took the story as well.

 

[jdhaines]

I thought the article was an educational teaching tool for gun owners to be alert as to who you sell a gun to. If this can happen when a gun is purchased from a FFL imaging with no background check the opportunity for disaster if you are not cautious who you are dealing with. Reading about two police officer being shot and killed in the line of duty due to scum bags illegally acquiring firearms is not, in my opinion a subject to make jokes about. I did not read it as the media blaming the guns at all; they were detailing the travels of two firearms illegally purchased by lying to the FFL and filling out a false 4473 form and how these sales resulted in the death of two innocent people.

Interesting way to take it. I hadn't thought of it that way at all. I agree though, that's a good lesson to think about and try to implement when making sales. Thanks for the insight.

 

[indykid]

So if I get this right, we should ban police officers so they can't be killed by handguns????

 

[hornadylnl]

So if I get this right, we should ban police officers so they can't be killed by handguns????

This country is great at creating whole industries that shouldn't even exist. Tax accountants and lawyers, ffl dealers, etc. Of course those profiting from it will defend their existence.

 

[j706]

The bottom line is this isn't about the firearms. It is about cold blooded killers. Only a fool would blame the guns!

 

[jdewyse]

The story is not about guns themselves. It is about people not being responsible with who they sell their guns too.

 

[cedartop]

Interesting way to take it. I hadn't thought of it that way at all. I agree though, that's a good lesson to think about and try to implement when making sales. Thanks for the insight.

Josh, I think your initial reaction is spot on. The authors of this look long and hard for stories like this to demonize firearms. To not see an agenda with this report is blindness. I don't like to see officers killed anymore than the next law abiding citizen, but guns are merely one tool for that tradgedy.

 

[Amishman44]

I thought the article was an educational teaching tool for gun owners to be alert as to who you sell a gun to. If this can happen when a gun is purchased from a FFL imaging with no background check the opportunity for disaster if you are not cautious who you are dealing with. Reading about two police officer being shot and killed in the line of duty due to scum bags illegally acquiring firearms is not, in my opinion a subject to make jokes about. I did not read it as the media blaming the guns at all; they were detailing the travels of two firearms illegally purchased by lying to the FFL and filling out a false 4473 form and how these sales resulted in the death of two innocent people.

This is why I'm very careful when I sell a gun. If they can't show me a valid driver's license, carry permit and sign a bill of sale, I won't sell them the gun. I've taken losses on a gun by trading it in rather than have a bad sale that ends up like this! I'd be sick to find out a gun I sold someone ended up murdering someone, regardless of whether or not they were a PO. There's been a few times, I've simply sold a gun to a FFL, and taken the loss, rather than have a bad sale on the street. Sad stories...but probably more common than we want to know!

 

[ATF Consumer]

What I got from the story is how ineffective our judicial system really is due to the fact that felons that did the killing were not behind bars to even have the ability to kill anyone. If someone is a felon, why are they out on the streets? They really need to focus on the lame judicial system for the weak punishments and early releases that are given, not the guns.

Remember folks, guns don't kill people, people do!

 

[Michiana]

Put your own slant on these articles

Josh, I think your initial reaction is spot on. The authors of this look long and hard for stories like this to demonize firearms. To not see an agenda with this report is blindness. I don't like to see officers killed anymore than the next law abiding citizen, but guns are merely one tool for that tradgedy.

They can only make their anti gun-point if you fall into the trap; personally I like to read these types of articles as what positive information I can get out of them. Some people will sell a gun to Jack the Ripper and all is well and good until that gun gets used in a situation like in this article. You can be 100% in the right and still have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on lawyer fees proving you are innocent of any wrongdoing. Why look for trouble, CYA whenever possible. I've stopped a couple felons from purchasing guns thru me doing NICS background checks and I could assume they eventually met with someone at a Wal-Mart parking lot and procured their gun from a classified listing on the Internet. These people are out there and using the "how would I know" defense will not keep you from being sued by some victims family.

 

[Joe Williams]

Maybe all gun sales should go through an FFL. I know many of them push for that, and I'm CERTAIN they aren't doing so just to generate an additional revenue source making money they haven't earned off of other people's property.

All we need to do is look at the fact that FFLs don't sell guns to criminals, and the background check is our savior, just like the Brady Bunch says. Look at the outstanding record places like Don's and dealers like him who advocate requiring private sales go through an FFL have in keeping guns from the hands of criminals.

 

[PatriotPride]

The bottom line is this isn't about the firearms. It is about cold blooded killers. Only a fool would blame the guns!

Agreed.

 

[indyrun]

The story is not about guns themselves. It is about people not being responsible with who they sell their guns too.

Ultimately, people are responsible for themselves and their minor children. The killers are to blame for the killing. If the dealer knew he was dealing with persons unlawfully able to purchase a firearm then the dealer is responsible for his actions. With the instant background check in place the dealer has to place his trust in the system he is obligated to use. If the system failed then the system is at fault, or those charged with maintaining and updating the system.

The law gives an FFL the right to discriminate and not sell to anyone he personally deems irresponsible.

 

[Michiana]

Better safe than sorry

The law gives an FFL the right to discriminate and not sell to anyone he personally deems irresponsible.

No one has more freedom to walk away than an individual doing a gun sale or trade with another non licensed individual. If it doen't feel right don't do the deal. People don't have to use FFL's, just be careful who you deal with. As far as statements made by the uninformed; transfers by individual FFL's like myself make me about $5 and hour when I figure in my waiting time for delivery and the rest that goes into a transfer such as taxes and fees; which is why I turn transfer away. Of course even that is more money made than by people that sit home on their butt typing obnoxious comments on forums; at least I'm working.

 

[Bill of Rights]

The story is not about the guns. That said, it was made to be about the guns by a biased reporter. In both cases drugs were a factor in the guns being made available to those who used them to kill. Logic dictates that if the drugs were not demonized as they are and people could legally buy them, there might have been a robbery for cash to do so or maybe a robbery simply to obtain them, but the guns would not have been as likely to have been bartered as they were. The other part of the problem is, yes, the criminals, but to the liberal left, it's theoretically not possible to control peoples' actions and so they focus on controlling things, ignoring the fact that there are many millions of those things. Attempting to prevent crime by controlling guns is like trying to prevent people from getting sand in their swimsuit bottoms by controlling every grain of sand on a beach.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kick]

The story is not about the guns. That said, it was made to be about the guns by a biased reporter. In both cases drugs were a factor in the guns being made available to those who used them to kill. Logic dictates that if the drugs were not demonized as they are and people could legally buy them, there might have been a robbery for cash to do so or maybe a robbery simply to obtain them, but the guns would not have been as likely to have been bartered as they were. The other part of the problem is, yes, the criminals, but to the liberal left, it's theoretically not possible to control peoples' actions and so they focus on controlling things, ignoring the fact that there are many millions of those things. Attempting to prevent crime by controlling guns is like trying to prevent people from getting sand in their swimsuit bottoms by controlling every grain of sand on a beach.

Blessings,
Bill

Very well said. You stole my post, made it better, (deleted it) then posted it as your own!!

 

[Amishman44]

Maybe all gun sales should go through an FFL. I know many of them push for that, and I'm CERTAIN they aren't doing so just to generate an additional revenue source making money they haven't earned off of other people's property.

All we need to do is look at the fact that FFLs don't sell guns to criminals, and the background check is our savior, just like the Brady Bunch says. Look at the outstanding record places like Don's and dealers like him who advocate requiring private sales go through an FFL have in keeping guns from the hands of criminals.

I have to agree with your statement Joe! I've had people look at my guns and then balk at the suggestion that we do the sale through an FFL (my treat). Their response alone is good enough for me...$25 to CYA on someone....I'll pay the fee out of profits to keep my butt out of jail and out of the court room.