The War on Drugs : Is lost

[lashicoN]

...I believe the prefered drug of Thomas Jefferson's time would have been opium. He was actually thought to have grown it in his garden at Monticello.

Thank you for bringing this up. I was going to link a few articles earlier, but forgot to. Pot is bad for your memory (just kidding ).

I was talking about pre-1960 drug use in the US. Some of this stuff goes back before we were even a country. As I said before, this all certainly did not start in the 1960s.

The First Marijuana Law in America, 1619 - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

This is why the war on drugs is stupid.

"The first draft of the Declaration of Independence (June 28, 1776) was written on hemp paper, as was the second draft (July 2, 1776). This was the document agreed to and released two days later on July 4, 1776. On July 19, 1776, Congress ordered the Declaration be copied and engrossed on parchment (animal skin) and this was the document actually signed by the delegates on August 2, 1776."

"Betsy Ross sewed the first American flag from hemp. "

"Marijuana was America's number one analgesic for 60 years until the rediscovery of aspirin around 1900. From 1842 to 1900 cannabis compounds made up half of all medicines sold. "

"Before the1978 "War on Drugs," was declared, there were about 300,000 Americans in prisons for all crimes combined."

History of Marijuana in the USA from MMJ DIRECTORY - A Place for Medical Marijuana Patients and Caregivers to Meet

"The legal history of marijuana in the United States mainly involves the 20th and 21st centuries. In the 1800s, marijuana (also referred to as cannabis) was legal in most states, as hemp to make items such as rope, sails, and clothes, and was used for medicinal purposes"

 

[lashicoN]

Please do.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

• This was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). A variant of this was published as:

 

[IndyMonkey]

Thank you for bringing this up. I was going to link a few articles earlier, but forgot to. Pot it bad for your memory (just kidding ).

I was talking about pre-1960 drug use in the US. Some of this stuff goes back before we were even a country. As I said before, this all certainly did not start in the 1960s.

The First Marijuana Law in America, 1619 - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

This is why the war on drugs is stupid.

"The first draft of the Declaration of Independence (June 28, 1776) was written on hemp paper, as was the second draft (July 2, 1776). This was the document agreed to and released two days later on July 4, 1776. On July 19, 1776, Congress ordered the Declaration be copied and engrossed on parchment (animal skin) and this was the document actually signed by the delegates on August 2, 1776."

"Betsy Ross sewed the first American flag from hemp. "

"Marijuana was America's number one analgesic for 60 years until the rediscovery of aspirin around 1900. From 1842 to 1900 cannabis compounds made up half of all medicines sold. "

"Before the 1978 "War on Drugs," was declared, there were about 300,000 Americans in prisons for all crimes combined."

History of Marijuana in the USA from MMJ DIRECTORY - A Place for Medical Marijuana Patients and Caregivers to Meet

"The legal history of marijuana in the United States mainly involves the 20th and 21st centuries. In the 1800s, marijuana (also referred to as cannabis) was legal in most states, as hemp to make items such as rope, sails, and clothes, and was used for medicinal purposes"

Asbestos is great for fireproofing and making roofing material also.

 

[lashicoN]

Asbestos is great for fireproofing and making roofing material also.

Health problems

Left-sided mesothelioma : CT chest


Chrysotile asbestos, like all other forms of asbestos, has produced tumors in animals. Mesotheliomas have been observed in people who were occupationally exposed to chrysotile, family members of the occupationally exposed, and residents who lived close to asbestos factories and mines. [23] Amosite and crocidolite are the most hazardous of the asbestos minerals because of their long persistence in the lungs of exposed people. Tremolite often contaminates chrysotile asbestos, thus creating an additional hazard.
Asbestos exposure becomes a health concern when high concentrations of asbestos fibers are inhaled over a long time period.[24] People who become ill from inhaling asbestos are often those who are exposed on a day-to-day basis in a job where they worked directly with the material. As a person's exposure to fibers increases, because of being exposed to higher concentrations of fibers and/or by being exposed for a longer time, then that person's risk of disease also increases. Disease is very unlikely to result from a single, high-level exposure, or from a short period of exposure to lower levels.[24] Smoking combined with asbestos exposure may increase the health risk dramatically.[citation needed]
[edit] Other asbestos-related diseases

• Asbestos warts: caused when the sharp fibers lodge in the skin and are overgrown causing benign callus-like growths.
• Pleural plaques: discrete fibrous or partially calcified thickened area which can be seen on X-rays of individuals exposed to asbestos. Although pleural plaques are themselves asymptomatic, in some patients this develops into pleural thickening.
• Diffuse pleural thickening: similar to above and can sometimes be associated with asbestosis. Usually no symptoms shown but if exposure is extensive, it can cause lung impairment.

Those are the down sides that have been proven from the direct and sole use of asbestos. What is the PROVEN down side to solely and directly using marijuana?

 

[IndyMonkey]

Seems like a victim-less crime.

 

[lashicoN]

Seems like a victim-less crime.

Are you kidding me Indy? For a few posts there I was all excited. You were keeping me on my toes. It was really nice debating you, then you go and do this post.

No citations, no facts, no argument. Just a random picture that says "Drugs are bad!" and shows some deformed baby. Terribly, terribly poor form, sir.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Are you kidding me Indy? For a few posts there I was all excited. You were keeping me on my toes. It was really nice debating you, then you go and do this post.

No citations, no facts, no argument. Just a random picture that says "Drugs are bad!" and shows some deformed baby. Terribly, terribly poor form, sir.

Sorry I failed you. Getting ready to go to the Mother in laws surprise birfday party and didnt have much time to play anymore with my internet buddies.

Im sure we can play again soon,as most of what you post is wrong.

Have a good day my Liberal internet buddy.

 

[lashicoN]

Sorry I failed you. Getting ready to go to the Mother in laws surprise birfday party and didnt have much time to play anymore with my internet buddies.

Im sure we can play again soon,as most of what you post is wrong.

Have a good day my Liberal internet buddy.

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I've shirked a few posts before because I was in a hurry as well. I seriously hope you can redeem yourself after that catastrophe though.

When you get back on INGO, I'm all ears to hear what I'm wrong about.

Just to wrap it up, I'm in favor of letting parents decide what their children can and cannot do. I'm in favor of getting the government to end the war on drugs, thus reducing taxes and shrinking the government. You want to take away personal responsibility, hand that authority over to the strong federal government, raise taxes to continue the war on drugs, and tell people what they can and can not do with their own bodies, leaving those decisions also up to the strong federal government.

Which of us is a liberal again?

 

[Lex Concord]

Sorry I failed you. Getting ready to go to the Mother in laws surprise birfday party and didnt have much time to play anymore with my internet buddies.

Im sure we can play again soon,as most of what you post is wrong.

Have a good day my classical Liberal internet buddy.

FIFY

 

[Ogre]

Seems like a victim-less crime.

... thats like me posting a picture of a 5 year old who shot himself in the face and sarcastically saying "yeah, its good his parents had a right to own a gun..."
are you fricking kidding me...

 

[IndyMonkey]

... thats like me posting a picture of a 5 year old who shot himself in the face and sarcastically saying "yeah, its good his parents had a right to own a gun..."
are you fricking kidding me...

Except owning a gun is not illegal.

lets be honest, you smoke a lot of pot dont you?

I know some of you guys do but you are not honest or proud enough to say on a public forum that you do.

 

[Lex Concord]

Except owning a gun is not illegal.

lets be honest, you smoke a lot of pot dont you?

I know some of you guys do but you are not honest or proud enough to say on a public forum that you do.

Drinking is legal too.

Look up fetal alcohol syndrome and explain again why one is okay and the other is not.

It might get you more respect than accusing others of illegal activities.

 

[SavageEagle]

I can speak from personal experience. I used to smoke an ounce of pot a day. Sometimes more. Did this for about 3 years straight. For free. Never once did I have any desire to do harder drugs. Never once did I steal to be able to afford my habit. Never once did I kill to support my habit. Never once has it affected my ability to get, perform, or maintain a job.

There are millions of smokers who do it on a daily basis or are "weekend warriors" that do jobs everyday that, knowing they smoke, would make you flip out of your mind and rip your eyes out. And they do a great job at what they do, support their families, pay their taxes, and chug along going after their "American Dream".

Do people abuse drugs? Well, duh. But why should that be a crime? If they want to destroy their life, that's their choice. If people want to help them NOT destroy their life, that's their CHOICE. But when a crackhead robs someone, that's robbery. Stealing. When I Heroin dealer kills his supplier because he got screwed, that's murder. When a pill head robs a pharmacy and kills a customer, that's armed robbery and 1st degree murder.

Punish people for REAL crime, and I mean REALLY punish them, and you won't see this kind of behavior as much. When people get the death penalty for murder and die the next day instead of going on death row for 15 years,

Why would you want to criminalize an act that infringes on no one's rights is beyond me. You people that want to criminalize drugs because they ruin lives sound like the Brady Bunch who want to criminalize guns because they kill people. If you really think about it in a sense of Liberty and Freedom, there is no fundamental difference. You are advocating infringing on someone's freedom to chose what they do to their own body.

What next? Do you want to outlaw salt because it clogs arteries or outlaw smoking completely because it causes lung cancer?

By God, if I want to sit on my front porch and smoke a joint while eating some salty, greasy french fries and sip on a Jack 'n Coke, it ain't no one's GD business so leave me the **** alone. Period.

 

[Lex Concord]

Except owning a gun is not illegal.

lets be honest, you smoke a lot of pot dont you?

I know some of you guys do but you are not honest or proud enough to say on a public forum that you do.

Another point on this post.

Using your logic, there is good probability that many who would advocate for the repeal of NFA secretly have illegal machine guns in their safes, and just aren't honest or proud enough to say so.

Maybe folks who think Indiana should go Vermont/Alaska style on handgun carry secretly carry even though they don't have an LTCH.

Don't be so quick to equate advocacy with participation.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Heres 2 of the dumbest arguments I've heard in my life, that I've read over and over in this thread.

1. Making drugs legal will turn all of society into no good drug heads and criminals.

here why that way of thinking is STUPID!! because its so easy to get ANY kind of drug right now even though they are illegal, but most people do not use any drugs. and so its not because its illegal (the law might detour 2% of people) the rest just choose not to do drugs. its like a law telling a man he cant get a blow job, its so easy to get ANYWHERE its just not gonna stop, even if you make a life sentence for it. but some people still choose of free will not to do it.

2. Your not a good American or a contributing member of society unless you pay taxes.

STUPID!!!! for one, it is FACT!!! that Federal Income Tax IS an ILLEGAL TAX!!! dont believe me?? Then call up the IRS and ask them to show you the LAW that allows it. NO LAW ON THE BOOKS. but we still have to pay it anyways so that argument is for another day. Besides Federal Income Tax doesnt pay for ANY social services, NONE!!!! what does??? sales tax, property tax, excise tax, gas tax, etc, etc, etc. so basicly its IMPOSSIBLE to live in America and not pay taxes. So all you people who complain about people who dont pay taxes need to shut the hell up!!!! EVERYONE WHO HAS EVER SHOPPED AT A WALMART PAYS HIS OR HER SHARE OF TAXES!!!

Marijuana needs to be legalized as well as other natural drugs. If people wanna waste away their own lives for using drugs then let them. If they wanna break into my house then let them!! I have something waiting for them!!! The war on drugs is simply a way for government to hire more agents and police to go after people they call criminals because they smoke a J every once in a while. Yeah theres big fish too, but if it was legalized tomorrow it would shut them down. Anyone remember how expenssive pre-ban AR-15's were during the AWB??? now how much are they??? A LOT LESS!!! and if not for inflation and hi demand they'd be even cheaper than they are now.
Imagine how many police and government employees would be out of work tomorrow if JUST marijuanna were legalized. Hundreds of thousands. Thats another reason they dont wanna legalize drugs. we would need FAR less police, and we would spend FAR less money on overcrowded prisons because no more people would be in them with life sentences for having a blunt in their pocket.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Except owning a gun is not illegal.

lets be honest, you smoke a lot of pot dont you?

I know some of you guys do but you are not honest or proud enough to say on a public forum that you do.

I dont do drugs. and if you pay for the test, i will gladly show up and take it to prove i dont. Nor do I knowingly associate with any friends that do, but if i did know someone who did, i wouldnt be a dirty rat and tell any cops about it. hell, i dont even drink anymore. i just got bored with it.

i still believe drugs should be legalized. now what say you?

 

[lashicoN]

Great posts, everyone. I'd seriosly like to rep everyone in this thread for their well laid-out arguments, but I'm all capped out.

Savage, epic post man.

 

[Ogre]

Except owning a gun is not illegal.

lets be honest, you smoke a lot of pot dont you?

I know some of you guys do but you are not honest or proud enough to say on a public forum that you do.

Thats what you think, huh?

 

[IndyMonkey]

Is it not the fear of jail time that keeps some people from doing illegal things?

That is what keeps me from making full auto ak's in my garage, driving 180 mph on a bike and killing people for being stupid.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Do you have a criminal record?

I can speak from personal experience. I used to smoke an ounce of pot a day. Sometimes more. Did this for about 3 years straight. For free. Never once did I have any desire to do harder drugs. Never once did I steal to be able to afford my habit. Never once did I kill to support my habit. Never once has it affected my ability to get, perform, or maintain a job.

There are millions of smokers who do it on a daily basis or are "weekend warriors" that do jobs everyday that, knowing they smoke, would make you flip out of your mind and rip your eyes out. And they do a great job at what they do, support their families, pay their taxes, and chug along going after their "American Dream".

Do people abuse drugs? Well, duh. But why should that be a crime? If they want to destroy their life, that's their choice. If people want to help them NOT destroy their life, that's their CHOICE. But when a crackhead robs someone, that's robbery. Stealing. When I Heroin dealer kills his supplier because he got screwed, that's murder. When a pill head robs a pharmacy and kills a customer, that's armed robbery and 1st degree murder.

Punish people for REAL crime, and I mean REALLY punish them, and you won't see this kind of behavior as much. When people get the death penalty for murder and die the next day instead of going on death row for 15 years,

Why would you want to criminalize an act that infringes on no one's rights is beyond me. You people that want to criminalize drugs because they ruin lives sound like the Brady Bunch who want to criminalize guns because they kill people. If you really think about it in a sense of Liberty and Freedom, there is no fundamental difference. You are advocating infringing on someone's freedom to chose what they do to their own body.

What next? Do you want to outlaw salt because it clogs arteries or outlaw smoking completely because it causes lung cancer?

By God, if I want to sit on my front porch and smoke a joint while eating some salty, greasy french fries and sip on a Jack 'n Coke, it ain't no one's GD business so leave me the **** alone. Period.