The War on Drugs : Is lost

[4sarge]

Looking for some gun deals on here now?

The ATF pays snitches as well or better than the DEA. Obama/Holder have probably put an emphasis on Gun Rats because you all know that we cannot be trusted clinging to the Constitution, Religion and Guns

 

[Expat]

so its ok to tell a 5 yr old "ill give you 100 lollypops for sex" but its not ok to rape them. got it, glad you cleared that up

im just curious if you know and are ok with how foolish you sound or you have no clue how foolish you sound

Apparently NAMBLA has made a lot of progress in getting its position accepted by the general population. Children can make their own decisions on drugs, sex, etc.

 

[Lex Concord]

I'm also in complete support of the war on drugs. I don't like giving up against the kind of people that are in the drug trade, and I'd rather go down fighting than give them free reign. Sorry I wasn't very eloquent or cute in framing it, but none of these other guys has convinced me otherwise, either.

The "kind of people who are in the drug trade" are only able to make money in the drug trade because of the war on drugs.

Prohibition drives up risk of participation and artificially restricts supply, both of which serve to drive up the rewards.

It's basic economics, and is the reason the mafia was able to grow so large and powerful during alcohol prohibition.

 

[lashicoN]

That's a new one, I don't pay a dime in taxes? Interesting, I'll have to have a chat with the IRS. I thought the only people who didn't pay taxes were CMH winners and anyone in Obama's cabinet. Where do I pick up my "I don't gotta pay no mo" card because property taxes will be coming up again before too long and I'd like to get it submitted before my next big, fat paycheck as well. I also need to buy some groceries and your, er I mean my, money will go farther if I don't have to pay sales tax on them. I guess I can stop putting money aside from my business and part time jobs as well since I won't have to pay on those anymore either.

Maybe you guys are right. Having given it some thought, this country really was in horrible shape before recreational narcotics took hold in the 60's. I mean, the caliber and strength of character of the men and women who fought during WWII really left a lot to be desired. The generations of people and the state of our country has really improved dramatically since then with the assistance of drugs. You guys are right, I think the prohibition should just be lifted immediately. What could possibly go wrong? I'm sure the drug cartels would be very willing to slide back to poverty after lowering their prices 95%. More people would probably be willing to get jobs rather than seek BS disability status or just sit around on welfare. How long would it take before it's decided that Americans have a right to all of the free drugs they can ingest? Then we could have another department added to the government for cultivation, manufacture and distribution of narcotics. They could take over the old office spaces that the DEA used to use.

Hell I'm writing my congressman now. The whole "if you can't beat em, join em" policy has worked so well over the last 40 years I don't see why we shouldn't apply it here as well. The farther away from conservative values we get the better this country looks so I'm all for it.

I'm a changed man!!! Now I need to start looking for a real job so I can make money for the government! Something really productive that contributes to the success of America like working at Walmart or selling cell phones at a kiosk in the mall!!!!!!

Good to see that you skimmed over my post and didn't comprehend anything I said. You don't mine, manufacture, or create anything. You work for the government, therefore you don't create any real income for the United States. How do you pay taxes if you don't make any money? This is how - you can a paycheck every week (or every other week) from the taxpayers. Then you use part of that money to pay your taxes. You are simply using our tax dollars to pay your taxes, so YOU aren't paying taxes. We're essentially paying them for you. I don't understand why you can't comprehend this, it is extremely simply logic.

And it also looks like you need to brush up on your history, but as a Tory, I know you'll just take the line the government feeds you and carry that as your viewpoint until you cease to exist. Drug use certainly didn't start in the 60s in the United States. Using drugs doesn't usually change your character much, it just enhances certain parts of who you already are. A lot of people like to use drugs and alcohol as an excuse to be a creep or jerk though, that much is true, but in the end they were always a creep or a jerk, they just covered it up better when they weren't using drugs or drinking alcohol.

so its ok to tell a 5 yr old "ill give you 100 lollypops for sex" but its not ok to rape them. got it, glad you cleared that up

im just curious if you know and are ok with how foolish you sound or you have no clue how foolish you sound

I don't know how clueless you were when you were 5, but if someone came up to me and offered me 100 lollipops for sex, I would have starting screaming for my parents. Just to keep you simpletons in check, I've never said I think it is ok for 12 or 5 year olds to do crack. I'm simple saying that in the end if they aren't my kids, they aren't my business. But too many of you federalists can't resist big government intervention on anything you can't handle or if YOU think something is wrong.

Wow, what an indictment he laid on you! So every firefighter, cop, soldier, or anyone employed with tax dollars is suddenly a non-contributor? They provide nothing?!? Sounds a bit extreme, to me.

I'm also in complete support of the war on drugs. I don't like giving up against the kind of people that are in the drug trade, and I'd rather go down fighting than give them free reign. Sorry I wasn't very eloquent or cute in framing it, but none of these other guys has convinced me otherwise, either.

Just my 2 cents...

Common sense sounds extreme to you? I've already broken it down how they don't put any real income into the system. And I never stated they didn't "provide nothing". Firemen, Police, EMTs, and Military provide us with services. It's just dishonest to pretend that they generate income for the United States of America. They take our tax dollars for services rendered and then give the US some of that money back in the form of their taxes.

And with the continuation of the war on drugs, you certainly will go down fighting. Maybe then you'll realize it wasn't worth it. If you would like any proof, go to a liquor store, they are plentiful in the United States with many different companies manufacturing alcohol. That was once banned too. It's going to happen. You can save yourself some money and just not go to the pot stores when they inevitably become legal and spring up, or you can continue sinking money into the war on drugs and put that money right into the pockets of drug lords and bad people.

Right, I guess I'm a parasite but drug dealers should be applauded for their hard work and contributions to society. Shucks, my internet feelings are all hurt now.

You're not a parasite, just a loyal Tory. There is some difference between the two. Drug dealers should be applauded for their hark work as equally as people who own liquor stores. If marijuana was legal, it could at least be grown in the US, and slightly taxed in the US for over the counter transactions. Then, they too, would be putting money into the system.

 

[XMil]

That's a great summary Lex, too bad most people are unable or unwilling to think about. Too many people are so reactionary that when someone says "the D.W. is bad" they hear "every five year old should do meth." I blame the schools.

 

[lashicoN]

Apparently NAMBLA has made a lot of progress in getting its position accepted by the general population. Children can make their own decisions on drugs, sex, etc.

Children who have the government make all of their choices for them turn into adults who have the government make all of their choices for them.

It should be left up to their parents. We are talking about the United States of America.

Do you think John Adams would have let his children do crack? No. Do you think he would have supported the government telling him it wasn't his decision to be made, one way or the other? Certainly not.

 

[42769vette]

I'm simple saying that in the end if they aren't my kids, they aren't my business.

to each his own i guess, but if i see a 40 yr old man having sex (willing or rape) with a child im defintally beating his ___. be it my kid, or yours im betting 99.9% of parents would thank me and the other .1% should have there ___ beat

 

[Lex Concord]

That's a great summary Lex, too bad most people are unable or unwilling to think about. Too many people are so reactionary that when someone says "the D.W. is bad" they hear "every five year old should do meth." I blame the schools.

Yes, the schools have been a resounding success, as their goal is not to educate, but to "socialize" children into good little cogs for society. For those who disagree or aren't sure, do your own research (if you know how...took me a while after escaping the indoctrination camp). Here is a hint for starters: "John Taylor Gatto".

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Ironically, school is probably the most likely place for a young'n to acquire drugs while the "war" rages on.

 

[phylodog]

Good to see that you skimmed over my post and didn't comprehend anything I said. You don't mine, manufacture, or create anything. You work for the government, therefore you don't create any real income for the United States. How do you pay taxes if you don't make any money? This is how - you can a paycheck every week (or every other week) from the taxpayers. Then you use part of that money to pay your taxes. You are simply using our tax dollars to pay your taxes, so YOU aren't paying taxes. We're essentially paying them for you. I don't understand why you can't comprehend this, it is extremely simply logic.

Actually it's flawed logic. In case you haven't noticed the economy in this country has been largely service based for quite some time. I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be on this topic. Those who mine, manufacture or create are the only real taxpayers? Who buys the majority of their products? The government is a pretty substantial consumer, so if all of these "real taxpayers" are getting paid with my tax dollars then I guess they're not generating any income for the United States either?

And it also looks like you need to brush up on your history, but as a Tory, I know you'll just take the line the government feeds you and carry that as your viewpoint until you cease to exist.

I'm sorry, have we met? You know how I think and what I stand for? While I may not share your opinion of considering drug dealers to be heroes I'm far from what you've decided I am.

Drug use certainly didn't start in the 60s in the United States. Using drugs doesn't usually change your character much, it just enhances certain parts of who you already are. A lot of people like to use drugs and alcohol as an excuse to be a creep or jerk though, that much is true, but in the end they were always a creep or a jerk, they just covered it up better when they weren't using drugs or drinking alcohol.

I didn't say it started in the 60's. If you think using narcotics doesn't change a person's character then you're obviously posting on a topic you know nothing about.

I don't know how clueless you were when you were 5, but if someone came up to me and offered me 100 lollipops for sex, I would have starting screaming for my parents. Just to keep you simpletons in check, I've never said I think it is ok for 12 or 5 year olds to do crack. I'm simple saying that in the end if they aren't my kids, they aren't my business. But too many of you federalists can't resist big government intervention on anything you can't handle or if YOU think something is wrong.



Common sense sounds extreme to you? I've already broken it down how they don't put any real income into the system. And I never stated they didn't "provide nothing". Firemen, Police, EMTs, and Military provide us with services. It's just dishonest to pretend that they generate income for the United States of America. They take our tax dollars for services rendered and then give the US some of that money back in the form of their taxes.

And with the continuation of the war on drugs, you certainly will go down fighting. Maybe then you'll realize it wasn't worth it. If you would like any proof, go to a liquor store, they are plentiful in the United States with many different companies manufacturing alcohol. That was once banned too. It's going to happen. You can save yourself some money and just not go to the pot stores when they inevitably become legal and spring up, or you can continue sinking money into the war on drugs and put that money right into the pockets of drug lords and bad people.



You're not a parasite, just a loyal Tory. There is some difference between the two. Drug dealers should be applauded for their hark work as equally as people who own liquor stores. If marijuana was legal, it could at least be grown in the US, and slightly taxed in the US for over the counter transactions. Then, they too, would be putting money into the system.

What do you do to pump money into the system? Just curious.

 

[Principal Skinr]

Good to see that you skimmed over my post and didn't comprehend anything I said. You don't mine, manufacture, or create anything. You work for the government, therefore you don't create any real income for the United States. How do you pay taxes if you don't make any money? This is how - you can a paycheck every week (or every other week) from the taxpayers. Then you use part of that money to pay your taxes. You are simply using our tax dollars to pay your taxes, so YOU aren't paying taxes. We're essentially paying them for you. I don't understand why you can't comprehend this, it is extremely simply logic.

And it also looks like you need to brush up on your history, but as a Tory, I know you'll just take the line the government feeds you and carry that as your viewpoint until you cease to exist. Drug use certainly didn't start in the 60s in the United States. Using drugs doesn't usually change your character much, it just enhances certain parts of who you already are. A lot of people like to use drugs and alcohol as an excuse to be a creep or jerk though, that much is true, but in the end they were always a creep or a jerk, they just covered it up better when they weren't using drugs or drinking alcohol.



I don't know how clueless you were when you were 5, but if someone came up to me and offered me 100 lollipops for sex, I would have starting screaming for my parents. Just to keep you simpletons in check, I've never said I think it is ok for 12 or 5 year olds to do crack. I'm simple saying that in the end if they aren't my kids, they aren't my business. But too many of you federalists can't resist big government intervention on anything you can't handle or if YOU think something is wrong.



Common sense sounds extreme to you? I've already broken it down how they don't put any real income into the system. And I never stated they didn't "provide nothing". Firemen, Police, EMTs, and Military provide us with services. It's just dishonest to pretend that they generate income for the United States of America. They take our tax dollars for services rendered and then give the US some of that money back in the form of their taxes.

And with the continuation of the war on drugs, you certainly will go down fighting. Maybe then you'll realize it wasn't worth it. If you would like any proof, go to a liquor store, they are plentiful in the United States with many different companies manufacturing alcohol. That was once banned too. It's going to happen. You can save yourself some money and just not go to the pot stores when they inevitably become legal and spring up, or you can continue sinking money into the war on drugs and put that money right into the pockets of drug lords and bad people.



You're not a parasite, just a loyal Tory. There is some difference between the two. Drug dealers should be applauded for their hark work as equally as people who own liquor stores. If marijuana was legal, it could at least be grown in the US, and slightly taxed in the US for over the counter transactions. Then, they too, would be putting money into the system.

Depends on your definition of real income. I guess only those who actually turn raw materials into products meets your definition. Otherwise, I'd have to dispute how a salesman for a private company provides any more work or income to society than a fireman or policeman.

Sorry, but I still don't believe that today's illegal drugs should be legal. Some things are worth fighting against.

One more thing--calling us names looks like an extremist tactic to me. You know nothing about me or most folks in the conversation, yet you call us a name that represents things far beyond the scope of this discussion.

I understand your passion, but simply disagree with you on this issue.

 

[lashicoN]

to each his own i guess, but if i see a 40 yr old man having sex (willing or rape) with a child im defintally beating his ___. be it my kid, or yours im betting 99.9% of parents would thank me and the other .1% should have there ___ beat

Are you running for public office? Why is it that necessary for your to constantly change the actual argument into something you can easily win?

The title of this thread is not - The war on underage sex: Is lost.

We're talking about drugs, not rape. This thread has nothing to do with sex.

 

[42769vette]

phylodog.

im betting if some drug addict or dealer breaks into lashions home tomorow to rob him and murder his family while he is at work he will be happy you and other leos are wasting his tax dollars to protect his family

 

[phylodog]

I don't think he hates LE. I just think he likes drug dealers more because they contribute by paying zero taxes on their products and buying them from those who send the money outside of the US. Makes sense I guess.

 

[42769vette]

We're talking about drugs, not rape. This thread has nothing to do with sex.

correct and thats why i stayed out of the whole thread (wich i will be doing again after this post) until in post 53 you said

"Burning them and molesting them is doing something to them without their consent. When you offer something to a kid, it isn't the same thing as taking something from a kid or doing, forcefully, something to a kid. It isn't the same level of wrongness. The kid has the option to say no when you offer him crack. He/she has no choice when you burn or molest them. That's why it's different."

wich brought up the sex issue and that comment is the only reason i posted anything at all here. ive been on ingo for a 1.5ish yr and that is the worst comment ive ever seen on any thread to date. congrats

 

[lashicoN]

phylodog.

im betting if some drug addict or dealer breaks into lashions home tomorow to rob him and murder his family while he is at work he will be happy you and other leos are wasting his tax dollars to protect his family

Right on time. When you can no longer argue with logic, you must attack it.

Fortunately for me and my family, we have several guns, lots of ammunition, and we all know how to use them very effectively. Your argument makes 0 sense. You think I should pay into the system and not be able to use it? Can you explain that one, vette? I didn't say LEOs are "wasting my tax dollars". I said they are taking my tax dollars for services rendered. Of course I'm going to take advantage of those services when I absolutely NEED to. I paid for them. I also said they don't contribute any income for the United States. I don't mind repeating myself. I'll say it as many times as I need to for you to finally go "Oh! that's what he is saying."

I don't think he hates LE. I just think he likes drug dealers more because they contribute by paying zero taxes on their products and buying them from those who send the money outside of the US. Makes sense I guess.

I don't "like" drug dealers more. But come on, if they grow drugs, illegally or legally in the United States, sell them to Americans, and use that money to purchase cars, stereos, or other goods, then they are contributing more to the United States economy than all of the public servants combined. Why is this such a hard thing to accept? I'm not saying your job is useless, I'm just saying that you don't put money into the system like the average guy who creates something real to sell, not just selling their "services".

 

[lashicoN]

correct and thats why i stayed out of the whole thread (wich i will be doing again after this post) until in post 53 you said

"Burning them and molesting them is doing something to them without their consent. When you offer something to a kid, it isn't the same thing as taking something from a kid or doing, forcefully, something to a kid. It isn't the same level of wrongness. The kid has the option to say no when you offer him crack. He/she has no choice when you burn or molest them. That's why it's different."

wich brought up the sex issue and that comment is the only reason i posted anything at all here. ive been on ingo for a 1.5ish yr and that is the worst comment ive ever seen on any thread to date. congrats

No, it did not. If you had bothered to read post #53 you would see that I was REPLYING to Expat. I didn't bring up the sex issue, I responded to a bad analogy.

 

[phylodog]

I don't "like" drug dealers more. But come on, if they grow drugs, illegally or legally in the United States, sell them to Americans, and use that money to purchase cars, stereos, or other goods, then they are contributing more to the United States economy than all of the public servants combined. Why is this such a hard thing to accept? I'm not saying your job is useless, I'm just saying that you don't put money into the system like the average guy who creates something real to sell, not just selling their "services".

And like I said, there are far more people in this country being paid for services rendered than products created here. If you think the majority of the illegal drugs in this country are produced here then you need to do a bit more research. The majority of marijuana and meth comes from Mexicao. Cocaine comes from south America. Heroin comes from the middle east. Most of the ecstasy comes from Europe. They are purchased from the manufacturers in those countries so the money is leaving the US which is not of benefit to this country. Narcotics are no different than the majority of the products consumed in this country, they're imported and the foreign manufacturers and middle men are reaping the benefits.

 

[jeremy]

And like I said, there are far more people in this country being paid for services rendered than products created here. If you think the majority of the illegal drugs in this country are produced here then you need to do a bit more research. The majority of marijuana and meth comes from Mexicao. Cocaine comes from south America. Heroin comes from the middle east. Most of the ecstasy comes from Europe. They are purchased from the manufacturers in those countries so the money is leaving the US which is not of benefit to this country. Narcotics are no different than the majority of the products consumed in this country, they're imported and the foreign manufacturers and middle men are reaping the benefits.

OK timeout. You also need to do your research on where these drugs are grown/produced...
You are 1/2 right...

Marijuana is grown across Central and South America.
Cocaine comes mostly out of South America not just Columbia.
Heroin does not come out of the Middle east. It comes out of Asia.
Hash comes from the Middle East.
And the Majority of Meth does come from the US... There is a lot made in Central America though...

The Foreign Suppliers are reaping the benefits because of the War on Drugs. Oft times our Government is paying these People to stay in power and do what they do...
The War on drugs what a **** farce.
Should be renamed the War on American Freedoms...

 

[Lex Concord]

I don't think he hates LE. I just think he likes drug dealers more because they contribute by paying zero taxes on their products and buying them from those who send the money outside of the US. Makes sense I guess.

Regardless of one's opinion of the nature and function of LE in society, the crux of the issue is that the "war" on drugs is what keeps the money flowing out of the country without any taxes being collected.

While I would condemn the way some agencies and administrations (prosecutors, etc.) choose to enforce the laws with extreme prejudice, I understand that the root problem is in the legislation these agencies are called upon to enforce.

Prohibition of any substance for which there is a demand will invariably lead to a black market in that substance. It is an economic fact of human nature.

Whether that substance is cocaine, denim, or meat, there will be people willing to take the higher risks for the chance, however short-lived, of making a huge return for their efforts.

Continuing the war on drugs will only continue to ensure record incarcerations for victimless crimes, continued motivation for violent and property crimes (the kind with victims) to support participation in the drug trade at various levels, and a continued vacuum on the already empty and soon-to-implode public coffers.

What I can't understand is how anyone can think it is perfectly sensible to allow sales of alcohol to anyone while attempting to restrict the sale of marijuana to everyone.

Alcohol consumption (not driving, operating heavy machinery, etc....just the substance itself) can kill you simply based on its concentration in your blood stream (not even pulling a John Bohnam) from a single use. There are then, of course, the well known long-term effects of chronic alcohol consumption.

As far as I have ever been able to find, there was only one known case of marijuana consumption directly leading to death, and that was ingestion of a half-pound or more, if I remember correctly. As far as long-term issues, lung cancer is one possibility while memory loss is often cited as another, yet studies have shown that memory returns fairly rapidly after cessation.

Alcohol is physically addictive. This is unquestionable. I have never seen any study stating physical addiction was possible with MJ.

Am I missing something here?

 

[IndyMonkey]

You guys have to be bat poop crazy to think that drugs should be made legal to buy.

In the roofing business I have seen way to many people that use to just smoke pot who then move on to other drugs and completely lose all touch with reality in a few short years.