The Zionsville Tortoise incident

[Dirtebiker]

Who sh*t in your Cheerios this morning?

No **** in my cereal! (Special K with strawberries. I don't like Cheerios!)
but seriously, I don't know that it was you, but someone mentioned the shooter should lose his house, his job, one mention- his LIFE!!!!! For killing a tortoise!? Knowing very few details.
I do believe it was you who said you'd have no problem killing someone who harmed your alpacas!?
I totally understand the connection people have with their pets, I love my dog. But she is NOT my child. That is NUTS!
You don't think some of your and others comments were a little exaggerated?

We don't know the details and facts about the tortoise shooting (or as one member called it... murder (?) ... I had to laugh out loud at that one.), but the first 25 or so posters are ready to hang the guy? What am I missing? What happened to waiting for the investigation and/or trial?

 

[IndyDave1776]

No **** in my cereal! (Special K with strawberries. I don't like Cheerios!)
but seriously, I don't know that it was you, but someone mentioned the shooter should lose his house, his job, one mention- his LIFE!!!!! For killing a tortoise!? Knowing very few details.
I do believe it was you who said you'd have no problem killing someone who harmed your alpacas!?
I totally understand the connection people have with their pets, I love my dog. But she is NOT my child. That is NUTS!
You don't think some of your and others comments were a little exaggerated?

We don't know the details and facts about the tortoise shooting (or as one member called it... murder (?) ... I had to laugh out loud at that one.), but the first 25 or so posters are ready to hang the guy? What am I missing? What happened to waiting for the investigation and/or trial?

Yes, harming my alpacas could be very hazardous to a person's well-being. As for my comment about the man being too stupid to live, people demonstrating such tendencies as killing a non-native and non-aggressive animal (i.e., patently obvious that it was someone's pet) for the sheer hell of it gives me great confidence in a person's probability of self-liquidating if afforded sufficient opportunity--just not enough brain cells firing. As for waiting for a completed investigation, most of us would generally take that position. In this case, it is much easier to jump to a conclusion when one cannot conceive of circumstances in which such an act would be considered reasonable.

 

[actaeon277]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosadism

 

[IndyDave1776]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoosadism

What do they call deriving pleasure from cruelty to morons?

 

[croy]

While I guess the death penalty is probably off the table in our fluff society, I do think adultery should be an actual crime punishable by jail time. Elevator farts and line cutting deserve public shaming in the very least.
This guy who shot the turtle is deffinately a piece of ****. If it was someone I knew, it would end the relationship

Do you have any interesting DEAD turtle stories?

And before anyone asks no TT did not shoot a turtle, tortois or whatever is in question.

 

[rob63]

Yes, harming my alpacas could be very hazardous to a person's well-being. As for my comment about the man being too stupid to live, people demonstrating such tendencies as killing a non-native and non-aggressive animal (i.e., patently obvious that it was someone's pet) for the sheer hell of it gives me great confidence in a person's probability of self-liquidating if afforded sufficient opportunity--just not enough brain cells firing. As for waiting for a completed investigation, most of us would generally take that position. In this case, it is much easier to jump to a conclusion when one cannot conceive of circumstances in which such an act would be considered reasonable.

This is where I simply don't understand you at all. I cannot conceive of circumstances where it would be reasonable to harm someone for hurting an animal. I hope for your sake that you never have the opportunity.

Concerning your previous comments about not believing the possibility that the man didn't know it was a tortoise and that he was too stupid to live if he didn't. I have absolutely no idea what the difference is between a tortoise and a snapping turtle, and if I saw either it would never occur to me that people keep such things as pets. I have no idea what an alpaca is either. I just don't care about such things. I've probably seen references to them before, but I don't bother to remember any details about them. I guess that makes me too stupid to live in your world view. In all honesty, you are coming across to me as an extremely self-righteous, certified nut-case. I don't say that very often.

I don't come to this from an anti-animal perspective, I don't cater to harming any living creatures if I can avoid it. However, it seems to me it is plausible he made an honest mistake that he probably regrets. Forgiveness is a possibility in my world view, retribution isn't always the answer.

 

[PaulF]

So, playing devil's advocate here...take with a grain of salt:

The African Sulcata Tortoise is a carrier of salmonella. It lives on their skin and in their feces. Handlers are recommended to wash hands thoroughly after contact with the animal, and it is not recommended to keep or consume food in close proximity.

Zoos take special care to disinfect and isolate these animals until they are shown to be free of communicable bacteria and parasites. I worked as a zookeeper in my summers off in college and was exposed to these practices and procedures. What sanitation procedures does this private owner follow? Any?

The take-away from this is that it is possible for a tortoise to transfer salmonella to another animal, like a human...or a flock of sheep. If that tortoise defecated in the grazing grounds of those sheep they could become infected with salmonella. Is salmonella-contaminated lamb salable? Is the wool? would the flock be at all salvageable following a widespread contamination?

If a farmer is running a commercial sheep farm, does he not have a right to protect his investments from loss?

I question this guy's intentions, but I think that a reasonable argument exists for destroying the animal on sight.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I cannot conceive of circumstances where it would be reasonable to harm someone for hurting an animal.

Personally, I look at the sheep farmer as more of a dope than a villain for killing the tortoise, AND I also agree with the few here who wonder why nobody faults the tortoise's owner for letting him get out. It was her negligence that set it all in motion.

I don't own an Alpaca, but, I'm in complete agreement with Dave in that it would be hazardous to someone's health to threaten harm to the 4-pound Chihuahua sleeping on my couch right now. Yes, I know she's not my child. She's my dog, I love her, and I'll do what I can to keep her safe, starting with keeping her home.

If a farmer is running a commercial sheep farm, does he not have a right to protect his investments from loss?

Just asking; How does the farmer taking the tortoise to a taxidermist fit with that rationale?

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

Your position is interesting to me. Do you have an e-newsletter to which I can subscribe?

Would your position change if it was an arthritic, toothless, hound dog that had been shot and killed by the side of the road?

I doubt you'd like to read my newsletter. The common sense of it might be hard to comprehend. I've had to put down several animals for one reason or another and it stings for a minute but in the end, you know you've done the right thing. I don't see the parallel between an escaped tortoise and a dog put out of it's misery though. Care to expound?

 

[Itchytriggerfinger]

Read your comment.

Read your name.

Have to ask:

Are YOU the farmer who shot the tortoise?

No sir. I did not have relations with that tortoise.

 

[PaulF]

Just asking; How does the farmer taking the tortoise to a taxidermist fit with that rationale?

Oh, it doesn't.

I was only trying to make a reasonable (though completely hypothetical) case for killing a stray reptile on a production livestock farm, not claiming that was what happened in this scenario.

That guy claimed he couldn't even identify the type of animal he shot, I certainly don't expect him to know what diseases it carries. If he really did think that African Tortoise was a record-sized Alligator Snapping Turtle there isn't much can do for the guy. Maybe buy him a DVD collection of old Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom episodes to review?

 

[IndyDave1776]

This is where I simply don't understand you at all. I cannot conceive of circumstances where it would be reasonable to harm someone for hurting an animal. I hope for your sake that you never have the opportunity.

Concerning your previous comments about not believing the possibility that the man didn't know it was a tortoise and that he was too stupid to live if he didn't. I have absolutely no idea what the difference is between a tortoise and a snapping turtle, and if I saw either it would never occur to me that people keep such things as pets. I have no idea what an alpaca is either. I just don't care about such things. I've probably seen references to them before, but I don't bother to remember any details about them. I guess that makes me too stupid to live in your world view. In all honesty, you are coming across to me as an extremely self-righteous, certified nut-case. I don't say that very often.

I don't come to this from an anti-animal perspective, I don't cater to harming any living creatures if I can avoid it. However, it seems to me it is plausible he made an honest mistake that he probably regrets. Forgiveness is a possibility in my world view, retribution isn't always the answer.

Thank you for your honesty, particularly in clarifying your position that you don't care, therefore no one should care. I believe I am going to leave your amateur attempt at playing Sigmund Freud where I found it. You have already told me enough about yourself that posting my unvarnished opinion would probably get me banned.

As for forgiveness, I am not necessarily in disagreement, but given the circumstances coupled with the man's lawyer's expression of sincere regret after looking out the window and seeing folks with pitch forks, I find its genuine nature highly implausible.

So, playing devil's advocate here...take with a grain of salt:

The African Sulcata Tortoise is a carrier of salmonella. It lives on their skin and in their feces. Handlers are recommended to wash hands thoroughly after contact with the animal, and it is not recommended to keep or consume food in close proximity.

Zoos take special care to disinfect and isolate these animals until they are shown to be free of communicable bacteria and parasites. I worked as a zookeeper in my summers off in college and was exposed to these practices and procedures. What sanitation procedures does this private owner follow? Any?

The take-away from this is that it is possible for a tortoise to transfer salmonella to another animal, like a human...or a flock of sheep. If that tortoise defecated in the grazing grounds of those sheep they could become infected with salmonella. Is salmonella-contaminated lamb salable? Is the wool? would the flock be at all salvageable following a widespread contamination?

If a farmer is running a commercial sheep farm, does he not have a right to protect his investments from loss?

I question this guy's intentions, but I think that a reasonable argument exists for destroying the animal on sight.

Had any of this dawned on the man, particularly BEFORE shooting the tortoise, I would find his decision at least less difficult to accept, or at least until considering that the tortoise had been following the road, was dead on the side of the road, and no suggestion has been made by anyone that the tortoise made any attempt to invade the man's pasture. I see this as analogous with the fact that there are shady characters I would shoot if I caught them in my house but shooting them for walking down the road in front of my house won't wash no matter how disreputable they may appear.

 

[jamil]

My two pennies, it's possible to be an ******* and not deserving not breathing. But certainly deserving of whatever karma has in mind. I don't know enough about this to make any other judgements.

 

[rob63]

Thank you for your honesty, particularly in clarifying your position that you don't care, therefore no one should care. I believe I am going to leave your amateur attempt at playing Sigmund Freud where I found it. You have already told me enough about yourself that posting my unvarnished opinion would probably get me banned.

As for forgiveness, I am not necessarily in disagreement, but given the circumstances coupled with the man's lawyer's expression of sincere regret after looking out the window and seeing folks with pitch forks, I find its genuine nature highly implausible.

Had any of this dawned on the man, particularly BEFORE shooting the tortoise, I would find his decision at least less difficult to accept, or at least until considering that the tortoise had been following the road, was dead on the side of the road, and no suggestion has been made by anyone that the tortoise made any attempt to invade the man's pasture. I see this as analogous with the fact that there are shady characters I would shoot if I caught them in my house but shooting them for walking down the road in front of my house won't wash no matter how disreputable they may appear.

It was more of an amateur attempt to get you to see a different viewpoint. In any case, I am more of a fan of Victor Frankl.

 

[MrsGungho]

Criminal charges are being filed.

Boone County man charged with criminal mischief in shooting death of pet tortoise - Local News - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

 

[femurphy77]

Criminal charges are being filed.

Boone County man charged with criminal mischief in shooting death of pet tortoise - Local News - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Appropriate, hopefully restitution includes replacement costs.

 

[MrsGungho]

Appropriate, hopefully restitution includes replacement costs.

the tortoise is property so I would assume that would happen.

 

[phylodog]

 

[Fargo]

Strange but it isn't on mycase, all that comes up on the guy is an 08 speeding ticket. Maybe it hasn't actually been filed yet?

Edit: Try as I might, I can't find a press release or statement from the prosecutor, all I can find is reference to a statement made by the sheriffs department but no link. There also appears to be no filed case. I am curious where WTHR is getting its information.

 

[bobzilla]

True enough, but my take on it is that claiming to have mistaken it for a snapping turtle is analogous to claiming to have mistaken a school bus for a motorcycle. By virtue of its species not naturally occurring here, if he didn't realize it was an escaped pet with an owner, he is too stupid to live.

I guess I too am not fit to live. I have no idea the difference. They both look like turtles to me. I've lived almost 42 years in rural parts of this state. Just because you're rural and/or a farmer doesn't make you an automatic zookeeper.

Since im not allowed to live anymore I'll go take care of business now.