Thought experiment poll: 9mm-JHP VS. 45-FMJ

[churchmouse]

Says I have to spread the rep around a bit.

I got him for you.

 

[ashby koss]

Your wording of the question and poll is not really very good. It’s two separate questions.

if I need to procure the ammo, then I would not be using it. For SHTF, I would have it already stocked deep. Plus it would be 5.56 or 12ga etc for my main. Pistol is secondary in shtf. I understand your idea though. what would your “fall back be” (I think that’s the idea) but once the 45acp runs dry I can switch to 40sw, then 9mm and on and on see a trend?

 

[HamYankee]

Yeah, fallback options. What would you want to spend time and resources on as far as pistol. But, this is just a fun exercise and wanted to get peoples thoughts on crap.

Your wording of the question and poll is not really very good. It’s two separate questions.

if I need to procure the ammo, then I would not be using it. For SHTF, I would have it already stocked deep. Plus it would be 5.56 or 12ga etc for my main. Pistol is secondary in shtf. I understand your idea though. what would your “fall back be” (I think that’s the idea) but once the 45acp runs dry I can switch to 40sw, then 9mm and on and on see a trend?

 

[churchmouse]

Your wording of the question and poll is not really very good. It’s two separate questions.

if I need to procure the ammo, then I would not be using it. For SHTF, I would have it already stocked deep. Plus it would be 5.56 or 12ga etc for my main. Pistol is secondary in shtf. I understand your idea though. what would your “fall back be” (I think that’s the idea) but once the 45acp runs dry I can switch to 40sw, then 9mm and on and on see a trend?

Good points.
Many of us are multi-calibered. If I had to actually go into full defensive mode it would be a 10mm handgun. But I would have to be at home for this.
.45 on my hip with spare mags and 9mm BOB/GHB in the truck with me.

P-Dog has it right. Capacity rules in these situations.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If I couldn't use modern ammunition, my next choice would be hard cast wadcutter or semi-wadcutter bullets. Something cast hard enough to not fragment and with sharp enough shoulders to not easily deflect off round bone or angled bone strikes and that is more likely to cut tissue then push it out of the way. If the last resort was bulk FMJ, I'd go with the heaviest bullet I could find. The cheap-o FMJ bullets shed their jackets easily and are a soft lead that fragments. Heavier/slower bullets don't break themselves into pieces as easily.

 

[HoughMade]

Finally, a thread that will solve, once and for all, the .45acp vs 9mm debate. I was looking forward to something like this.

 

[WebSnyper]

My Thompson is chambered in 45 ACP, I'll stick with that.

For similar reasons, if I wasn't in a place to get to my 5.56 AR, and only had choice between 9MM FMJ & 45 FMJ, I'd be grabbing my AR9 with the red dot over the pistol anyway. Easier to get hits on target effectively. SHTF, complete meltdown, I'm taking slung centerfire semi auto rifle over handgun, but then still many factors to consider.

Your wording of the question and poll is not really very good. It’s two separate questions.

if I need to procure the ammo, then I would not be using it. For SHTF, I would have it already stocked deep. Plus it would be 5.56 or 12ga etc for my main. Pistol is secondary in shtf. I understand your idea though. what would your “fall back be” (I think that’s the idea) but once the 45acp runs dry I can switch to 40sw, then 9mm and on and on see a trend?

Agreed, I wasn't sure exactly what the question was specifically. Is it 9mm FMJ vs 45 FMJ, is it which I would want to have to try and find should there be a SHTF situation and economic meltdown and then assume I would be stuck with 9mm FMJ? Also the assumptions were thrown in regarding reloading, etc, so am I just trying to find or stock reloading components?

 

[LarryC]

I can't imagine any SHTF scenario where I or my family would ever run out of ammo! My sons and I have many thousands of rounds in storage both 45 and 9mm, in addition 44 mag, .357, 7.62 X 25, 40 cal, etc.. However in reality a handgun would be my last choice. We have several handguns, carbine's, rifles and shotguns. We also have reloading equipment for almost all calibers and enough primers, powder and lead for about 30k cartridges. I do think the new 9mm self defense ammo (unlike the old round point) is effective, however the old 45 wad-cutters, as well as the new ammo is at worst just as effective. I think reloading the 45 with hard cast lead would be a good choice. However in order to reload the 9mm as an effective round would require purchasing commercial defense bullets.

 

[HoughMade]

If we are talking of a true WROL/SHTF situation, why are we talking about handguns at all? Clearly a rifle caliber or 12ga is a superior stopper from a self-defense perspective and more flexible in a food gathering role.

 

[solarpimp]

With the technological advances in defense ammunition, the 230 FMJ .45 ACP load might be inferior to some of the best 9x17 JHP loads available. Nevermind increased capacity in regards to the 9x19 JHP vs .45ACP FMJ, on performance alone the 9x19 JHP wins in spades and probably is equal to most non-plus pressure .45ACP JHP loads (where once again, the .45ACP loses the capacity comparison).

 

[hookedonjeep]

I'm sticking with the Lord's Caliber - .45ACP all day. 9MM might expand, but the 45 will never shrink....

 

[bwframe]

In SHTF .45 ammo and components will dry up quick. Then there is that silly stupid large primer vs small primer thing going on.

Every range you go to has 9mm cases all over the ground. .45's are becoming rarer and rarer.

 

[churchmouse]

In SHTF .45 ammo and components will dry up quick. Then there is that silly stupid large primer vs small primer thing going on.

Every range you go to has 9mm cases all over the ground. .45's are becoming rarer and rarer.

Mainly due to the costs involved.


You big "Sissy's"...….

 

[gregkl]

I'm a metric guy.

Like others, a carbine and shotgun would be my main payload with a pistol as a back up but in reality if I got into a firefight with multiple bad guys,say a platoon of invaders, it would be over well before I ran out of ammo.

The main point for me is to not go down without a fight.

 

[ar15_dude]

If you find yourself in TEOTWAWKI or WROL or zombie apocalypse or boogaloo or whatever, I suggest some form of M4 as your primary. America's Rifle is ubiquitous and a great (not perfect) system.

As a secondary weapon system, or for concealed carry in "normal" times, hard to beat a 9mm striker fired pistol for a nice balance of weight, effectiveness, capacity, availability. And these days there are so many great pistols. As it has been said: all pistols suck. All you can hope for is penetration, no hydrostatic effects. But the pistol caliber wars are over. 9 mm won, for good reasons. Accept it. Embrace it like US military, FBI, nearly all LE agencies have. Take for advantage of progress in small arms. Move on and focus on training.

 

[ashby koss]

If you find yourself in TEOTWAWKI or WROL or zombie apocalypse or boogaloo or whatever, I suggest some form of M4 as your primary. America's Rifle is ubiquitous and a great (not perfect) system.

As a secondary weapon system, or for concealed carry in "normal" times, hard to beat a 9mm striker fired pistol for a nice balance of weight, effectiveness, capacity, availability. And these days there are so many great pistols. As it has been said: all pistols suck. All you can hope for is penetration, no hydrostatic effects. But the pistol caliber wars are over. 9 mm won, for good reasons. Accept it. Embrace it like US military, FBI, nearly all LE agencies have. Take for advantage of progress in small arms. Move on and focus on training.

There are some who will argue and disagree that 9mm has "won" the caliber debate. Just because the government has taken it up, well.... they never make mistakes and always know best right?

 

[Ingomike]

If we are talking of a true WROL/SHTF situation, why are we talking about handguns at all? Clearly a rifle caliber or 12ga is a superior stopper from a self-defense perspective and more flexible in a food gathering role.

I think they are trying to figure out what caliber pistol they need to fight back to their rifle... LOL

 

[bwframe]

There is no doubt that a rifle would be first choice in SHTF.

That said, we could very well find that guys walking with rifles strangely end up dead fast, never knowing what hit them.

Just sayin', your concealed pistol may be the only way to move without being a target.

 

[churchmouse]

If you find yourself in TEOTWAWKI or WROL or zombie apocalypse or boogaloo or whatever, I suggest some form of M4 as your primary. America's Rifle is ubiquitous and a great (not perfect) system.

As a secondary weapon system, or for concealed carry in "normal" times, hard to beat a 9mm striker fired pistol for a nice balance of weight, effectiveness, capacity, availability. And these days there are so many great pistols. As it has been said: all pistols suck. All you can hope for is penetration, no hydrostatic effects. But the pistol caliber wars are over. 9 mm won, for good reasons. Accept it. Embrace it like US military, FBI, nearly all LE agencies have. Take for advantage of progress in small arms. Move on and focus on training.

No. The 9mm remains an alternative to may other choices. I find it to be the most anemic of offerings from our personal non scientific research.
Key here is "Non-Scientific. But no, the 9mm is mainly a prolific round due to the costs and availability of the myriad of platforms to run it. The mere thought of a Tupperware striker fired piece on my hip...………..

But I am so that is part of it I am sure.

Run what you like/want.

I do not want to get shot by anything including a pellet gun.

 

[gregkl]

There is no doubt that a rifle would be first choice in SHTF.

That said, we could very well find that guys walking with rifles strangely end up dead fast, never knowing what hit them.

Just sayin', your concealed pistol may be the only way to move without being a target.

Good point BW. Well, good point as far as I'm concerned as I agree with this thinking. I'm not being much of a "gray man" if I have a rifle strapped to my back.