To the IDIOT who damaged Kodiak Firing Range

[JoshuaW]

Wow. Honestly, if 223 can do that much damage, I would require everyone to "declare" their ammo. I would hang up some pictures to show the damage that was done too. Heck, I wouldn't consider it unreasonable to require people to buy 223 on sight, but I know that would be a huge turn off.

 

[s@w410]

My wife and I havent been to kodiak yet, we are itching to get there, sorry for the trouble some idiot caused you,

 

[Fargo]

I'm sure you could come up with a tungsten core while reloading

I've heard of guys turning their own tungsten cores and jacketing them but that would seem pretty hardcore for just wanting to mess up the range. I can't imagine tungsten carbide is an easy material to machine.

I am unaware of commercially available tungsten core 5.56 bullets but that's not to say they don't exist.

That said, I still put my money on them having been sticky fingered from the military. It is the only way that makes sense to me that someone would be wanting to burn up such rare/expensive ammo and goes hand in hand with having no respect for others property.

Best,

Joe

 

[Caleb]

I've heard of guys turning their own tungsten cores and jacketing them but that would seem pretty hardcore for just wanting to mess up the range. I can't imagine tungsten carbide is an easy material to machine.

I am unaware of commercially available tungsten core 5.56 bullets but that's not to say they don't exist.

That said, I still put my money on them having been sticky fingered from the military. It is the only way that makes sense to me that someone would be wanting to burn up such rare/expensive ammo and goes hand in hand with having no respect for others property.

Best,

Joe

It can be done, I used to sharpen tungsten welding electrodes with a belt sander. So using a mini lathe from harbor Frieght can get the job done. Is it illegal to manufacture tungsten core rifle bullets?

Hard part would be trying to figure out what powder to use and how much...

Caleb

 

[Horse]

I did a little basic digging on the subject and ended up only slightly less confused. Apparently you can own them, but your not supposed to make/sell them.



Good thing mild steel isn't considered AP or I would be hosed.

 

[Owens47235]

You sure cant fix stupid.... The idiot probably didnt think about the consideration of others let alone the safety of themself or others! Now they cost someone money that they will not be accountable for. People wonder why we lose privileges every day. Hope they get caught.

 

[opus1776]

Zimm1001,

Have you recovered any AP cores? Did anyone that day fire a 30-06 or .308 that day? The reason I ask is that a .308 AP bullet is much easier to get than a 5.56 AP round (as said by others -- not any known in civi hands). Just a curiosity....


======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss

You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.

Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...

Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

 

[Zimm1001]

Zimm1001,

Have you recovered any AP cores? Did anyone that day fire a 30-06 or .308 that day? The reason I ask is that a .308 AP bullet is much easier to get than a 5.56 AP round (as said by others -- not any known in civi hands). Just a curiosity....


======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss

You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.

Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...

Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

Only .223 was used that day. In order to recover the cores we would have to take down the backstop, foam and dig into the concrete wall. No cores are visible in the holes that I can tell. Went through AR500 plate cleanly and then some. Luckily the 8 inches of poured concrete did stop the bullet.

 

[Fargo]

I did a little basic digging on the subject and ended up only slightly less confused. Apparently you can own them, but your not supposed to make/sell them.



Good thing mild steel isn't considered AP or I would be hosed.

As I understand it, you can certainly own them and you can also sell them as long as you are not an FFL. You generally cannot import them and I am unclear on the legality of making your own.

Best,

Joe

 

[Caleb]

As I understand it, you can certainly own them and you can also sell them as long as you are not an FFL. You generally cannot import them and I am unclear on the legality of making your own.

Best,

Joe

That's what I want to know... legality of manufacturing steel and/or tungsten core bullets. I've heard Swiss 7.5x55mm is steel core....maybe I'll have to take it to a thick piece of steel to see how well it penetrates...

 

[Horse]

Most Euro ammo was/is steel core, but it is mild steel and usually not considered AP.

I had some hot 54R that would take out 500 all day long - only a few rounds of that left.

 

[MikeDVB]

That is absolutely ridiculous - thankfully your backstop did stop those rounds. The downside is that if somebody is specifically being malicious, they could always conceal a mag or simply some rounds in their pocket(s).

If possible, you may want to look into getting as high-resolution cameras as possible aimed at the backstop as well as the shooter and time sync them. This way if a round does penetrate your backstop you should be able to see it, get the time and the lane, and then find out who it was. It sucks at all to have to put any money into this sort of situation but I think, should it ever happen again, that it's best if you can identify the person so they can be held liable for their actions.

 

[rightwinger]

what a shame its crazy how one douche bag can destroys so much

 

[N8RV]

I'm looking forward to visiting your range soon. I'm glad that the damage was limited and repairable. What a shame ...

However, as a relative newbie to center-fire rifle shooting -- my only other experience was my brief exposure to M-16s in boot camp -- I can easily see how a noob could show up at a range with the wrong ammo.

I bought my first AR-15 this year. With no buddies who have them, I was completely on my own to buy my first EBR. When it came time to buy ammo, I only knew that there is a difference between .223 and 5.56, and that my M-4 could shoot either. I was totally clueless about "Penetrator" ammo vs FMJ. After it arrived, I then discovered that it had a steel core and shouldn't be used on metal targets.

I never even heard the word "frangible" with regard to ammunition until just recently while exploring different kinds of ammo. It's a new world for me.

I offer this only because, with the recent surge in gun sales to people who have little or no prior experience with firearms, it's quite reasonable to expect a percentage of them to buy and/or use the wrong ammo unintentionally. It doesn't sound like this applies in this case, if indeed it would take armor-piercing ammo to go through the steel targets so cleanly. But, it's something to keep in mind as more people new to shooting suddenly start showing up at ranges. Many will admit to being noobs and ask for help. Many, however, are too macho to risk looking or sounding stupid and will just fake it.

And that might even include ignorantly using a box of ammo that somebody sold him that was AP and he didn't know the difference.

You might want to consider mandating a brief "range orientation" for all shooters new to Kodiak, and include a handout that informs new shooters what kinds of ammo are available out there and what is and is not allowed at the range. That would allow macho noobs a chance to save face and learn something important without having to admit to their ignorance.

Looking forward to my orientation session at Kodiak.

 

[Hookeye]

Local indoor range gets mangled off and on by steel core folks.
New shooter or not, it's their responsibility to follow the rules, or pay for damages.

Some folks unfortunately break the rules on purpose.

 

[beararms1776]

We do check the ammo they are going to shoot if they do not buy it here at the range. However. although we ask people to leave all regular ammunition in their car we do not search bags. I guess we will need to search bags from now on.

I hate it the inconsiderate actions of one or a few ruin it for the majority who do the right thing. What is wrong with our society today. People just don't care about other people's things anymore.

Some people have a twisted view of how a free society should act.

 

[dwickstrom]

Only been to your range once but enjoyed it thoroughly sorry some Jack wagon cant show respect to a hardworking business owner we don't have a lot of ranges to choose from your is great.

 

[ncthorn]

Though I come from Terre Haute and as a member or Riley Conservation Club, hate having to pay each time I go to the range (aka I wish they had student memberships), Kodiak is a great place and is where I head if I want to shoot while I am up here at school. Plus, I just got my USP from there!

 

[actaeon277]

Some people have a twisted view of how a free society should act.

If you don't want your ammo checked, you are free to not go.
It is still free, in that respect.

A free society refers to the government leaving you alone, mostly. Which it seems we are not.

This is a private range. It was damaged.

If someone came to your house and damaged it, you might be upset also.
Their house, their rules.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I had not seen this thread before today and when I began to read it I was like "OMFG!.. I was there with my son and 2 nephews Saturday at about 9:30.. I hope we didn't damage anything"...

Then I realized the post was from February <whew>.. They only allow FMJ/JHP lead bullets on their standard range, for their other 2 ranges, they require frangible due to the proximity to targets, equipment, etc.

I was very worried for a second that it was my son, nephews, and I ...till I got to the .223 part. We were shooting .22LR and pistol calibers on the standard range.

I always read the rules carefully when I go to a range so I don't get kicked out.

Sorry about your loss Mike.