Town Hall Meeting: INGO and Law Enforcement

[RichardR]

It's definitely a pickle of a puzzle, personally in matters such as this I would err on the side of liberty, but that's mostly because that is what I believe George Washington & Thomas Jefferson would do.

 

[USMC_0311]

This is a Forum for Indiana Gun Owners.
Which happens to include just about every LEO in the State.
.....

We should keep this in prespective too. Out of the 15,859 INGO members are LEO?
1% = 158.59?
Percentage of LEO that are complaining? I can't do fractions of percent very well.

 

[KG1]

I still say we should allow it, but limit it to one section of the board. Create a "LEO Interactions" section which has General Cop Talk, Positive Interactions, and Negative Interactions sections. If people continue to bash cops outside that section, may the ban hammer fall swiftly.

I find this sort of remedy to be acceptable and it's pretty much inline with what Que proposed back toward the beginning of the thread and I voiced my support for it then. If LEOs wanna have a section they can go to and discuss topics pertaining to their approach to things then i'm all for that and I would also be for a section for posters to have an outlet where they can go to discuss topics about bad LEO interactions or bad LE policies in general. Then everyone can also share in the more common areas of the forum such as gun related topics as they wish.

 

[Que]

See, I think this would be a problem with a "meeting". Even IF you could get a time and place that worked for a majority of the membership (a herculean task in and of itself). Who would honestly show? Most likely not those with the issue - or perceived issue, but those wanting to meet other members. It would end up as a meet and greet. Then you get a positive thread started the next day that get hi-jacked because I know that cop at Strack was looking at me funny because I was carrying and ....

I may not have a lot of experience here, but I've run/be involved in running forums. Bashing, flaming, etc are always a problem but I think Que gave an idea that could allow both side to live together. Give each dog their own run.

I'm not sure how this happened, but this was not my quote attached to this reply.

 

[LPMan59]

I had a good interaction with a state trooper. And I emailed isp to tell them. I'm sure he's been fired by now for not oppressing me.

 

[Kitty]

Don't know - I quoted you in the post before it? Interesting!

 

[E5RANGER375]

We should keep this in prespective too. Out of the 15,859 INGO members are LEO?
1% = 158.59?
Percentage of LEO that are complaining? I can't do fractions of percent very well.

theres only about 150 REGULAR posters here, so i'd say maybe 20 of them are LEO. and thats probly high.

also we have good LEO here and we also have BAD leo here in my opinion.

 

[UncleMike]

So what is the solution? Ban any mention of LEO's and LE in general and stick to Gun related topics? Seems to me that this thread that Fenway posted as wanting suggestions pertaining to solutions has veered off course and headed into a payback for bashing the "cop bashers" thread.

IMO
Keeping ALL discussions civil would go a long was to improve the discourse between "Us and Them".
Eliminating blanket statements such as "And the Cops wonder why no one trusts/respects/likes/tolerates/etc, them." or, "They all stick up for each other no matter what laws they break." would be a good start.
I've NEVER condoned the actions of a "bad" LEO.
On the contrary, I've been instrumental in putting a "bad" LEO in prison.
The only thing I've asked is that Cops be given the same "Innocent until Proven Guilty" right as anyone else.
Unfortunately there are some people who convict Cops based on nothing more than their personal dislike for LEO's.
The facts are that there are simply some people who hate Cops.
As long as they have a platform to spew that hatred they will continue to do so.
If Fenway wants to allow that kind of talk, that's his business.
If he doesn't want to allow that kind of talk he has the ability to stop it.
I applaud him for starting this thread in an attempt to resolve the conflict but I don't see any possibility of a resolution unless he takes action to bring the Forum into line with his vision of it's mission.
Which I presume by the URL is a place for the discussion of firearms related topics and not a soap box for haters to drive a wedge between LEO's and everyone else.

 

[E5RANGER375]

IMO
Keeping ALL discussions civil would go a long was to improve the discourse between "Us and Them".
Eliminating blanket statements such as "And the Cops wonder why no one trusts/respects/likes/tolerates/etc, them." or, "They all stick up for each other no matter what laws they break." would be a good start.
I've NEVER condoned the actions of a "bad" LEO.
On the contrary, I've been instrumental in putting a "bad" LEO in prison.
The only thing I've asked is that Cops be given the same "Innocent until Proven Guilty" right as anyone else.
Unfortunately there are some people who convict Cops based on nothing more than their personal dislike for LEO's.
The facts are that there are simply some people who hate Cops.
As long as they have a platform to spew that hatred they will continue to do so.
If Fenway wants to allow that kind of talk, that's his business.
If he doesn't want to allow that kind of talk he has the ability to stop it.
I applaud him for starting this thread in an attempt to resolve the conflict but I don't see any possibility of a resolution unless he takes action to bring the Forum into line with his vision of it's mission.
Which I presume by the URL is a place for the discussion of firearms related topics and not a soap box for haters to drive a wedge between LEO's and everyone else.

this is also a place for political discusion and probly the thing that keeps this board as active as it is. this is why it will never be removed. its a love hate relationship. some people may get butt hurt (and its not just leo's) but it drives this site. well that and the awesome classifieds. lets just talk turkey.

like I said, im all for sitting at the table, and like has been said before (people are afraid to tell the things they say here to a cops face) wanna bet? no im not. Im all for an honest sit down discusion on what policies we citizens dislike and how we might be able to change it. we have asked for this here before but were ignored. so is this sit down really gonna change anything in our state or is it just meant to see face to face who we are arguing with and people think that will make some hessitate before they argue with that member? well i argue with my friends on here just the same as people I dont know so it wont matter to me.

If your a good LEO, dont get upset. even if people make blanket statements are you that thin skinned? you guys call people here tinfoilers all the time. when is the next tinfoil town hall meeting being held? i'll bring the foil!

 

[cosermann]

IF there's a problem (either real or perceived) in the law enforcement community it affects us all. Papering over it, pretending it doesn't exist, or banning its discussion does everyone a disservice.

So far, the idea I like best is a separate channel for such posts. The public debate can continue (which I think is important), while those sensitive to such matters can avoid the channel.

 

[LPMan59]

I think we should have a subforun called "the butt hurt locker". When a thread is reported to the mods they can move it there so no further butthurt will ensue. Readers will know what they're getting into.

 

[UncleMike]

this is also a place for political discusion and probly the thing that keeps this board as active as it is. this is why it will never be removed. its a love hate relationship. some people may get butt hurt (and its not just leo's) but it drives this site. well that and the awesome classifieds. lets just talk turkey

I'd bet that if the trash talk were to be eliminated a lot more of the members here would participate in the discussions.
As it is many are afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal by the haters.
And I've seen it happen exactly that way.
Some noob will chime in and give an opinion on a political topic and get his butt shot down in flames by the "experts" who think that they own the discussions here. The new person throws in the towel and never returns.
What good is a huge membership of people who don't participate because they don't want to be ridiculed by the "experts?"

 

[TopDog]

Unfortunately many of the "INGO Cops" don't visit the site any more simply because of the negative posts.
Some do still read posts here but would rather be kicked in the groin than make a post and get flamed by the persistent Cop haters.
I've asked LEO friends to join here but after reading some of the anti LEO threads they've told me "No way."
It's human nature to avoid unpleasant places.

I have found this to be true also. None of the cops I know read INGO or will post here.

If any group of people could smooth things over it would be the INGO community. But I don't see how you are going to get many from IMPD to come to such an event. And let me say this, its not a matter of butt-hurt. I have done ride along's and man the crap IMPD officers put up with from the public at large is more than I could take. Especially on the east side of Indy. They dont need to come to a fourm like INGO and go though more negative encounters after a "hard day at the office" so to speak.

I will ask around but I'm pretty sure there is not going to much interest from the officers I know.

 

[KG1]

I've NEVER condoned the actions of a "bad" LEO

And i've never specifically condemed the actions of a "good" LEO. I guess we both have one thing we can agree upon. It's Fenway's house and he can make the decision on what direction he would like it to go and I don't have a problem with that. Whatever decision he makes there are gonna be some people on either side of the issue that might not agree with it and they'll have to make the choice in whether they want to continue to participate or not.

 

[UncleMike]

And i've never specifically condemed the actions of a "good" LEO. I guess we both have one thing we can agree upon. It's Fenway's house and he can make the decision on what direction he would like it to go and I don't have a problem with that. Whatever decision he makes there are gonna be some people on either side of the issue that might not agree with it and they'll have to make the choice in whether they want to continue to participate or not.

Yup!

 

[E5RANGER375]

id rather have a town hall with the ILEA instructors than anyone else. lets have the media there too.

 

[turnandshoot4]

This is just my .02.

Getting rid of religon was good for ingo because people couldn't be civil (i.e. adults) about it.

Getting rid of police threads would be good for ingo because people can't be civil about it.

Thanks again Fenway.

 

[japartridge]

I'd bet that if the trash talk were to be eliminated a lot more of the members here would participate in the discussions.
As it is many are afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal by the haters.
And I've seen it happen exactly that way.
Some noob will chime in and give an opinion on a political topic and get his butt shot down in flames by the "experts" who think that they own the discussions here. The new person throws in the towel and never returns.
What good is a huge membership of people who don't participate because they don't want to be ridiculed by the "experts?"

I've begun to avoid the political forums, and quite a few of the 2nd amendment threads for this very reason... I'm just not that easily dissuaded from discussing something I enjoy... just don't want to get grief for it either.... I can get that from the wife!

 

[KG1]

I've begun to avoid the political forums, and quite a few of the 2nd amendment threads for this very reason... I'm just not that easily dissuaded from discussing something I enjoy... just don't want to get grief for it either.... I can get that from the wife!

That's the point. Sometimes i'm off my game and I can't alway's hang with the heavy hitters here on certain topics so I make my point and know when to get out and move on to something else. No skiin off my back.

 

[LegatoRedrivers]

We could also just take a more pro-active and strict stance on the 13+ age requirement on memberships. If any member makes a post that would make a mod question that they are at least 13 years of age, simply ban their account until they submit some kind of legal age verification.