Traffic stop, gun taken.

[DragonGunner]

(i) If a person who holds a valid license to carry a handgun issued under this chapter:
(1) changes the person's name;
(2) changes the person's address; or
(3) experiences a change, including an arrest or a conviction, that may affect the person's status as a proper person (as defined in IC 35-47-1-7) or otherwise disqualify the person from holding a license;
the person shall, not later than thirty (30) days after the date of a change described under subdivision (3), and not later than sixty (60) days after the date of the change described under subdivision (1) or (2), notify the superintendent, in writing, of the event described under subdivision (3) or, in the case of a change under subdivision (1) or (2), the person's new name or new address.

They're blowing smoke. Push the issue. The license doesn't have to be current, the ISP just has to be notified. They won't send out a new one unless you pay the $20 fee.

Don't roll over due to their bullying. That LEO is full of fecal matter.

Great info thanks!! She sent her name change in last Aug....my son got a form an they filled it out again an this time faxed it....he said the form said there is no fee for a name change, its free...20.00 fee if you lose it.

 

[hi-pointfan1]

My Daughter in law was stopped for speeding, she has a Lifetime handgun permit an a glock....Warsaw officer asks if she has this an a gun///we figure since its lifetime it showed up....she said yes....officer askd her to step out of the car, place her hands on the car an took her handgun, unloaded it....gave her the ticket an gave back her gun.....I do not know for sure if she gave permission for the gun to be takin or not....Why do some officer feel the need to disarm some people while other officers feel no need for this...?....I have yet to be stopped yet...I won't mind leaving my gun in the car if aske to get out...but I do not like the idea of having to surrender my gun..I figure when it happens to me an I say i do not want to surrender my gun or have you take it, I will be surrounded my cops an beaten almost to death....but thats me....so any thoughts for when she gets stopped again...any way to prevent an officer from taking your gun...I know they have to feel safe an secure, an don't blame them a bit....but it just doesn't seem right, espically when some officer do...an some don't....whats the scoop guys?

lmao @

"I figure when it happens to me an I say i do not want to surrender my gun or have you take it, I will be surrounded my cops an beaten almost to death..."

 

[finity]

It's also legal for officer safety to ascertain whether the person being stopped is armed with a handgun.

Yes, he can ask if there are any guns in the car. He can ask anything that he wants. You don't have to answer. So to say that it is "legal" for him to ask you a question about guns is meaningless since it's also legal for you not to answer.

The Deputy was well within his rights to want to know.

NO!

As an agent of the state the officer has NO RIGHTS. He only has authority granted to him by the people () of the state.

He can "want to know" all day long but unless he has PC to search you then I think there's a saying that is appropriate here that starts out "want in one hand..."

He ALSO had no way of knowing I wasn't fleeing a crime, driving fast with a car full of weapons.

He also had no reason to believe that you were. In fact, he had no reason to believe anything other than you were simply speeding. OK i'll grant you that you were excessively speeding but it was just speeding nonetheless. Speeding is not PC of any other crime. It's only PC of speeding.

Deputy-"do you have any weapons in the car?"
Me- "Yes, I have a handgun...
.
.
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NOTE: I FAILED to tell him of the 5.56NATO LRWC M4 Piston rifle, with Trijicon ACOG scope, with 4 loaded 30 round mags on the floor of the back seat with a blanket over it worth around $3k,
OR in the trunk
the Pre-ban M1A with loaded mags worth at least $1.5k+
and
the range bag of handguns with loaded magazines in the trunk worth about $2k.
I DIDN'T WANT THINGS COMPLICATED FURTHER BY THE DEPUTY FINDING OUT I HAD ALL THESE OTHER WEAPONS TOO.

Ah, OK, so now the plot thickens...

First you come in this thread sort of berating others for not wanting to inform "since they were guilty of a crime". Now we find out that YOU didn't inform him of all the weapons YOU were carrying...& for what reason...?

Because "I DIDN'T WANT THINGS COMPLICATED FURTHER...".

Just like the reason that many don't want to inform about the first gun.

So it's OK for YOU to not inform but not someone else.

I think that's called "hypocrisy".

MY #1 PRIORITY WAS TO NOT HAVE MY CAR IMPOUNDED...

& just maybe other people's #1 priority is to not have their property confiscated or possibly have a gun "screwed into their ear" (as one officer on here so eloquently put it) for a simple traffic stop or, as Kirk said, absolutely nothing at all.

In the end, I would do everything the way I did it that day.

The Boone County Deputy was MORE than fair to me.

In THIS instance "discretion was the better form of valor..."

That's fine. You made your choice. I can almost understand why since you were guilty of a serious crime that had the REAL possibility to cause REAL injuries or even death with all the attendent consequences & you were seemingly getting a relatively free pass on it. That in contrast to the crimes of "driving while black" (or while white in Kirk's case), having burned out light, etc.

Don't scold others for making a "different" choice than you did. Notice I put "different" in quotes because you really made the SAME choice just to a different degree. You lied just as much as anybody else who wouldn't have told them about the gun in the first place.

My sons best friend is a Elkhart County officer and he says to inform the cop and keep your hands on top of the steering wheel and usually all goes well.

Of course he did.

"usually" just isn't cutting it anymore for alot of us here...at least for me.

Yep.

Then they told him if he pursued it, then they would pursue charges against his wife for illegally carrying a handgun....

How in the hell can they get away with threatening you that way? It's either illegal what she did or it wasn't. If it was then they should have arrested her then & there.

I know there has to be a crime in here somewhere.

Extortion, Official Misconduct, etc. That HAS to be illegal in SOME way...

It looks like "intimidation" to me: "that the person be placed in fear of retaliation for a prior lawful act" (filing a complaint is a lawful act). & since the threat was communicated using government property then it should rise to the level of a D felony, but that's just me.

HOW DARE THEY ABUSE THEIR POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY TO SHIELD THEMSELVES FROM CITIZEN'S COMPLAINTS!!!

So, do the rest of the cops on here think that that's OK, too?

...the Warsaw police was just blowing smoke....

That's my vote.

 

[edporch]

-Snip-

Ah, OK, so now the plot thickens...

First you come in this thread sort of berating others for not wanting to inform "since they were guilty of a crime". Now we find out that YOU didn't inform him of all the weapons YOU were carrying...& for what reason...?

Because "I DIDN'T WANT THINGS COMPLICATED FURTHER...".

Just like the reason that many don't want to inform about the first gun.

So it's OK for YOU to not inform but not someone else.

I think that's called "hypocrisy".

-Snip-

That's fine. You made your choice. I can almost understand why since you were guilty of a serious crime that had the REAL possibility to cause REAL injuries or even death with all the attendent consequences & you were seemingly getting a relatively free pass on it.

-Snip-

1. The other weapons I had in my car were NOT readily accessible to me, and hence NOT a potential threat to the officer's safety.

ONLY the handgun I had next to me in the passenger seat was.

ANY of the others would have taken me so long to get out that the police officer could've emptied HIS gun into me and reloaded before I EVER could get them out.

There's no hypocrisy in that, just the discernment to see the DIFFERENCE...

2. At the time I was stopped, that stretch of road was totally open and no other cars anywhere near me, and I was driving a car that is suited for driving that speed.

AND what few cars I encountered, I slowed down as I approached, and passed them so as not to come up on them too fast.

If I had been weaving in and out of traffic at that speed and actually endangering others, you WOULD have a point.

This is LIKELY why the deputy just stuck me with a $394 speeding ticket.
HE actually was there and WITNESSED the conditions of the traffic violation and gave me a JUST penalty.

 

[finity]

1. The other weapons I had in my car were NOT readily accessible to me, and hence NOT a potential threat to the officer's safety.

ONLY the handgun I had next to me in the passenger seat was.

Does that speak to your character then?

My gun is on my side or on the seat beside me as well, AND IT IS STILL NOT A POTENTIAL THREAT TO THE OFFICER.

Also, if I allow that a gun in the hands of a generally law-abiding person (the traffic stop is for something illegal I assume) is a "threat" then I would guess that the officer would have felt that your "5.56NATO LRWC M4 Piston rifle, with Trijicon ACOG scope, with 4 loaded 30 round mags on the floor of the back seat with a blanket over it worth around $3k" would be considered a POTENTIAL threat since he asked about "ANY weapons" not just those "accessible".

There's no hypocrisy in that, just the discernment to see the DIFFERENCE...

The hypocrisy lies not with the fact that your guns were or were not a threat...potentially.

The officer asked if you had any weapons in the vehicle. He didn't ask if you had any that were a threat to him.

It lies with the fact that you lied.

Then you come here chastising those who feel that they would likely not inform an officer that they were carrying.

If you're pulled over for BREAKING the law, WHY is it unreasonable for a police officer to hold on to your gun until he sorts things out?

I was pulled over, CLEARLY GUILTY on Hwy 52 in Boone County doing 90+ mph (in a 60mph zone) about a year and a half ago by a Boone County Deputy Sheriff.
.
.
.
But Hey, I was guilty.

The gist of that post seems to pretty clearly indicate that you feel that we should have no problem telling the cop about a gun we have because it's a "potential" threat &, well, we were "BREAKING the law" & "CLEARLY GUILTY".

There's no difference between me not telling a cop about a gun on my side that is not a threat to him & you not telling him about the "EBR assault weapon with 120 rounds of death dealing lead" that is right behind your seat that is also not a threat to him.

2. At the time I was stopped, that stretch of road was totally open and no other cars anywhere near me, and I was driving a car that is suited for driving that speed.

AND what few cars I encountered, I slowed down as I approached, and passed them so as not to come up on them too fast.

If I had been weaving in and out of traffic at that speed and actually endangering others, you WOULD have a point.

This is LIKELY why the deputy just stuck me with a $394 speeding ticket.
HE actually was there and WITNESSED the conditions of the traffic violation and gave me a JUST penalty.

Obviously there WAS at least one other car on that stretch of road (the cop) that you didn't have a clue was there or he wouldn't have been able to catch you & give you a ticket.

How many other cars were there that you didn't know about either?

To relate a little story:

Several years ago when I lived in the Evansville area & worked at PPG there was an employee who was killed in a traffic accident. The accident was caused by a cop who was driving 90 mph in a 45 zone with no lights or sirens just heading back to the station for shift change. He was on a 4 lane highway at midnight with no cars in sight...untill the guy was killed leaving work when he misjudged the cops speed & pulled out in front of him & was hit on his motorcycle.

You see, the laws of physics tell us that it takes half as long to cover a certain distance at twice the speed. The speeder covered 100 yards in a little over 2 seconds @90mph. It would have taken around 4.5 seconds @45mph. That's a pretty significant difference when comparing that to human reaction times.

So, when you would have otherwise had plenty of time to cross traffic safely when the other guy was (assumed) to be traveling reasonably close to the speed limit (45) you will get hit when you have only half that amount of time. Especially when you add in other factors such as darkness which limits your frames of reference for speed perception.

You don't just have to worry about the people you are overtaking. You have to worry about the other people who you might not know are there coming from a blind access point or someone turning in front of you.

Ok, let me rephrase...

It wasn't the cops "fault" but his ILLEGAL driving contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to the events that led up to the guys death. That's why at a certain point they consider speeding to be "reckless".

 

[edporch]

Does that speak to your character then?

My gun is on my side or on the seat beside me as well, AND IT IS STILL NOT A POTENTIAL THREAT TO THE OFFICER.

Also, if I allow that a gun in the hands of a generally law-abiding person (the traffic stop is for something illegal I assume) is a "threat" then I would guess that the officer would have felt that your "5.56NATO LRWC M4 Piston rifle, with Trijicon ACOG scope, with 4 loaded 30 round mags on the floor of the back seat with a blanket over it worth around $3k" would be considered a POTENTIAL threat since he asked about "ANY weapons" not just those "accessible".



The hypocrisy lies not with the fact that your guns were or were not a threat...potentially.

The officer asked if you had any weapons in the vehicle. He didn't ask if you had any that were a threat to him.

It lies with the fact that you lied.

Then you come here chastising those who feel that they would likely not inform an officer that they were carrying.



The gist of that post seems to pretty clearly indicate that you feel that we should have no problem telling the cop about a gun we have because it's a "potential" threat &, well, we were "BREAKING the law" & "CLEARLY GUILTY".

There's no difference between me not telling a cop about a gun on my side that is not a threat to him & you not telling him about the "EBR assault weapon with 120 rounds of death dealing lead" that is right behind your seat that is also not a threat to him.



Obviously there WAS at least one other car on that stretch of road (the cop) that you didn't have a clue was there or he wouldn't have been able to catch you & give you a ticket.

How many other cars were there that you didn't know about either?

To relate a little story:

Several years ago when I lived in the Evansville area & worked at PPG there was an employee who was killed in a traffic accident. The accident was caused by a cop who was driving 90 mph in a 45 zone with no lights or sirens just heading back to the station for shift change. He was on a 4 lane highway at midnight with no cars in sight...untill the guy was killed leaving work when he misjudged the cops speed & pulled out in front of him & was hit on his motorcycle.

You see, the laws of physics tell us that it takes half as long to cover a certain distance at twice the speed. The speeder covered 100 yards in a little over 2 seconds @90mph. It would have taken around 4.5 seconds @45mph. That's a pretty significant difference when comparing that to human reaction times.

So, when you would have otherwise had plenty of time to cross traffic safely when the other guy was (assumed) to be traveling reasonably close to the speed limit (45) you will get hit when you have only half that amount of time. Especially when you add in other factors such as darkness which limits your frames of reference for speed perception.

You don't just have to worry about the people you are overtaking. You have to worry about the other people who you might not know are there coming from a blind access point or someone turning in front of you.

Ok, let me rephrase...

It wasn't the cops "fault" but his ILLEGAL driving contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to the events that led up to the guys death. That's why at a certain point they consider speeding to be "reckless".

You've labeled me a hypocrite more than once.
I'm honored that you need to resort to name calling and character attacks to bolster your case.

People who possess your level of beating a dead horse sanctimony and hair splitting self-righteousness towards judging others, NEVER live up to that same standard of perfection in their own lives. (which IS the definition of a hypocrite)

Come on in fellow hypocrite, the water's fine.... :-)

 

[exelh]

When I get pulled over, I have my license and registration ready. When the leo gets to my window I hand them to him, no matter what he says, I reply with five simple words "I choose to remain silent". Sure I get a ticket, but the look on the leo's face is worth it.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Short story shorter...

South Bend > absolutely nothing.

...South Bend sucks.

EDIT: Alright, maybe Chicago...

I've been pulled over in South Bend. Cop was totally cool with me carrying my gun - just asked me to cover it as I was leaning over, digging behind the seat for my proof of insurance.

There was one dude in South Bend who always drove a crotch rocket and open carried a full size Glock. No one ever seemed to bug him. I remember him gassing up at that gas station right across the street from the Taco Bell all the time.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Sure I get a ticket, but the look on the leo's face is worth it.

Oh yeah, you da man....

 

[DragonGunner]

I've been pulled over in South Bend. Cop was totally cool with me carrying my gun - just asked me to cover it as I was leaning over, digging behind the seat for my proof of insurance.

There was one dude in South Bend who always drove a crotch rocket and open carried a full size Glock. No one ever seemed to bug him. I remember him gassing up at that gas station right across the street from the Taco Bell all the time.

My son usually is seen on his crotch rocket with his Glock also.....speaking of which he just visited....I asked him if he had talked to the ISP an or if he an his wife was going to press the isssue with the Warsaw police? I asked when he went there the first time if he had his secret watch that videos an records on? He said no he hadn't takin it but wish he had, an that they decided to let it go this time...but if it ever happens again they will pursue it. His wife had told me she didn't think she would carry anymore, at least for awhile....I asked my son today if he thought she might ever carry again? He smiled an said they had been to Warsaw running all over an she carried her gun...she Open Carried with it everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Appearantly waiting for a Warsaw "Jackwagon" to infringe on her rights....lol. I said let this be a learning lesson, an make you grow an learn more about your rights an make it a positive....I'm still learning too an have learned alot here on INGO about our rights, thanks for all the info guys!!!!!!!!!!

 

[finity]

You've labeled me a hypocrite more than once.
I'm honored that you need to resort to name calling and character attacks to bolster your case.

People who possess your level of beating a dead horse sanctimony and hair splitting self-righteousness towards judging others, NEVER live up to that same standard of perfection in their own lives. (which IS the definition of a hypocrite)

Come on in fellow hypocrite, the water's fine.... :-)

The definition of a hypocrite is one who holds others to a higher standard than he holds himself or espouses that others should hold to beliefs or actions that he himself will not hold to.

You acted as if we were somehow "bad" for not wanting to inform an officer of a gun that is no threat to him when YOU YOURSELF did exactly the same thing.

I haven't claimed that ANYONE should live up to any expectation that I myself don't also at least attempt to live up to. I definitely don't belittle them if they don't (as long as they don't try to portray themselves as something they're not while belittling others). I'm not saying that I've never done anything hypocritical (I'd bet everyone has at one point in time) but in this case that charge won't hold.

It's not name calling if its describing an action or thought. Describing someone as a racist is not calling them names. It's pointing out that their beliefs & actions are racist. If you say or do hypocritical things then saying so isn't calling you a name. It's just a simple fact.

As for :

-- you're still here & talking , too.

Hair-splitting - If you say 'A' then do 'X' it's not "hair-splitting" to point that out.

Sanctimony & self-righteous - Please...I just say what I think. I don't expect ANYBODY to be perfect especially not myself. But if you come to a public forum & try to hold others to a higher standard than you yourself by OBVIOUSLY contradicting yourself you have to EXPECT to be called on it.

So, on to the

 

[GeneralCarver]

I think a lot of it has to do with the individual officer that is responding. How they feel about you. The mood they are in that day and what their views are on people owning weapons and carrying them. There seems to be all kinds of police out there. Some of them are pretty good guys and others are mad at everyone.

 

[grunt soldier]

You can see what my son posted about this incident in "2nd Ammendment" section under the title "Cop Search"....They filed a complaint, the officer knew before he went up to the car she had a LTCH becuase it came up, she did not give consent......the officer was young, but very polite but had no right to disarm her....officer name could not be read, my son may post his badge number later over there on his post..they are looking into it........right.

i want to know more about this because it's not possible. no where when officers run somebody does it come up saying they have a permit? and yes i do know this for a fact, so something else triggered the question.

 

[DragonGunner]

i want to know more about this because it's not possible. no where when officers run somebody does it come up saying they have a permit? and yes i do know this for a fact, so something else triggered the question.

I believe either in this thread or the other by Glock17Man a LEO did said depending what county an what kind of service they have it may or may not show up....In this case it did show up that she had a LTCH because this is what the Warsaw police said when my son went to talk to them...so the "fact" that you know it doesn't come up may be true in your area....but not true in others....even if it didn't come up its not uncommon for a LEO to ask anyway.
Of course the Warsaw police could be lying....wouldn't know why about this though. I think my son had said if they call it in, dispatch can can look it up an then tell the officer....?...so maybe it doesn't show up for the LEO, but he would know if it showed up for someone else at dispatch an then relayed back to him.....?

 

[kevman65]

i want to know more about this because it's not possible. no where when officers run somebody does it come up saying they have a permit? and yes i do know this for a fact, so something else triggered the question.

It IS listed with your drivers license information for the State, whether it comes up in certain jurisdictions in Indiana I can't answer, I can answer that it showed up in Florida when my drivers license was ran for a stop. That would be an Indiana drivers license with an Indiana LTCH showing up in a Florida traffic stop. Trooper told me to just keep my hands on the steering wheel after informing me he saw I had an LTCH on my information.

 

[grunt soldier]

i work control for impd and this is news to me. just to satisfy mine and other curiosities i am going to call a couple other counties tomorrow and ask if this is true, i will also call state and ask them. i run 50 plus licenses a day and in indy it does not come up. also i run folks in openfox for licenses, plates, anything and everything else (it's the national data base that is ran by all the state police folks ISP ect and is the system you have to use to be calea certified) and it doesn't come back in that either. you specifically have to go into openfox go to gun permit query, then pick the state for the permit, enter the info (either first/last name and dob or permit number) and then it will come back with the info.

i would like to know how florida can get our ltch permits to come back by running someone when they aren't even on our system, they could only get out of state permits back if ran in openfox like described above. i don't believe its possible unless what the officers are doing is running your plate, getting your name/oln then running your info and asking control to check if you have a permit (which in a small town not a lot of activity they could do in a few minutes) but in bigger departments it's just not possible as there is to much going on.

edited to add i looked through the other thread to see and it seems some counties and small towns where you fill out your permit paper work are keeping a local database that comes back for there officers that you have a permit. it's not coming back on a license because all of that is maintained by the BMV so it's a separate pop up that comes up in the local counties possibly, still doesn't explain the florida thing though unless he did it like i mentioned above.

 

[.45 Dave]

First off, you do not have to inform, so you willfully gave up your right to ignore a question that had absolutely nothing to do with your supposed traffic infraction.



Have I missed something somewhere or maybe misread something? I was under the impression that it was law that you had to inform an officer if you are armed in a situation like this. ???

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Have I missed something somewhere or maybe misread something? I was under the impression that it was law that you had to inform an officer if you are armed in a situation like this. ???

In Indiana you do not have to inform the officer that you are armed.

 

[grunt soldier]

yes frank is right. you do not have to inform. also i checked with state police, hamilton county and a couple others and they all said it does not pop up. ISP specifically stated it may be a small town system but thats it, they also stated if it is then its only if you filed for your permit through that PD. i asked about florida and they said there is no way it pops up for other states they definitely have to run it through openfox.

 

[.45 Dave]

In Indiana you do not have to inform the officer that you are armed.

Thanks for the info!!

Hmm..I have been under the wrong impression! Twice I have informed an officer and one wanted to know what I was carrying and discussed why I liked the XD better than a glock and the other one merely asked where it was. I said my coat pocket and he said well, just leave it there! No problems or hassles.