Traffic stop - trooper asked about guns

[PatMcGroyne]

Did she 'offer' her purse up?

And would YOU give your wallet to ANYONE, LEO or not, to -- say, take your DL and LTCH out and look it over!?!? I think NOT!! This LEO seems a bit squirrly, &/or badge-heavy. Pat.

 

[rmcrob]

Quick follow up:

It took forever for the ticket to finally show up in the online ticket pay system. I was worried, because you only have 60 days to pay. But someone in the traffic division of the clerk's office told me not to worry, because he 60 days starts when the officer finally gets it in the system. It must have taken almost three months.

Then, when it showed up, it showed up as having already been paid. We didn't pay it. I don't know if someone else paid for my wife's ticket accidentally, or if the officer marked it that way, or what?

My wife says that one of the officers on INGO probably took care of it, but I don't think that's even possible.

Anyway, I'll keep checking back once in awhile to see if the status changes.

 

[henktermaat]

Quick follow up:

It took forever for the ticket to finally show up in the online ticket pay system. I was worried, because you only have 60 days to pay. But someone in the traffic division of the clerk's office told me not to worry, because he 60 days starts when the officer finally gets it in the system. It must have taken almost three months.

Then, when it showed up, it showed up as having already been paid. We didn't pay it. I don't know if someone else paid for my wife's ticket accidentally, or if the officer marked it that way, or what?

My wife says that one of the officers on INGO probably took care of it, but I don't think that's even possible.

Anyway, I'll keep checking back once in awhile to see if the status changes.

That is odd... very odd.

 

[pathfinder317]

I really don't question the officer's decision to hold the gun while he did his paperwork. That really makes sense to me as a general practice. I know my wife is the least dangerous person in the world, but he doesn't know it.

I'm really only asking how the officer knew to ask about guns, or even if he knew. Was he taking a shot in the dark when he asked? Or did he already know about the LTCH?

maybe while she was getting her drivers license out of the purse he saw that little pink paper ?
or maybe that just happens to be his first question to everyone he pulls over.
I've never been ask that , but I did get pulled over and had a Glock 23 on my belt , covered by my jacket , I was driving a semi , and he had me out of the truck in front of his car when he ask for my drivers license , I didn't want him to think I was reaching for the gun so I told him , he said as long as it stayed in the holster we won't have a problem , he never really seemed to care.
Too bad this guy isn't a instructor at the academy.

 

[bft131]

FYI..Just talked to one of our local deputies while he was working out at the firehouse..Law enforcement in Indiana DOES NOT have the capability of telling whether we have a LTCH period..He stated that he wishes they did have that capability for several reasons; 1) For his own safety and 2) If the LTCH holder would be without his / her permit he could have that information.

As it stands now, if we forget our permit and have our firearm on our person, its an automatic go to jail issue...

Always have mine and a copy to boot...

 

[Roadie]

FYI..Just talked to one of our local deputies while he was working out at the firehouse..Law enforcement in Indiana DOES NOT have the capability of telling whether we have a LTCH period..He stated that he wishes they did have that capability for several reasons; 1) For his own safety and 2) If the LTCH holder would be without his / her permit he could have that information.

As it stands now, if we forget our permit and have our firearm on our person, its an automatic go to jail issue...

Always have mine and a copy to boot...

I am sorry, but I still don't buy the "his own safety" crap. LTCH holders are among the LEAST likely citizens, statistically, to commit a crime.

He didn't happen to say whether he confiscates firearms from LTCH holders during traffic stops, did he?

 

[benstew9ers]

i got pulled over one time, ok more than one but anyways i told him i had a loaded firearm in the truck and he asked me to step out and where was it so i did, he got my pistol and told me i could get back in and he went to the sqad car and ran my info and didnt right me a ticket, he gave me my pistol back unloaded and said he can give a person a loaded weapon back and i wouldnt of either, but he never once asked if i had a carry permit or to see it i thought that was strange. so maybe it does show up on ur DL

 

[Tactical Dave]

I have been pulled over and asked if I had any weapon's in the car and I don't have a liscence..... yet.

Many cop's ask.

Once I do have it and the cop ask's for it to run the serial number to make sure it is mine and not stolen then I have no problem with that.

Just because you have a LTCH does not mean the gun is not stolen...... There are people that buy gun's off of this site and I am sure do not have the serial number ran first so who know's if it is stolen even if you have a LTCH. Even during traffic stop's to issue a verbal warning cop's still ask for your ID and make sure you don't have any warrents or are driving on a suspended liscence....... they don't want to let someone loose that has a warrent or whatever, same for the gun, they just want to make sure it is your's and not stolen.

i got pulled over one time, ok more than one but anyways i told him i had a loaded firearm in the truck and he asked me to step out and where was it so i did, he got my pistol and told me i could get back in and he went to the sqad car and ran my info and didnt right me a ticket, he gave me my pistol back unloaded and said he can give a person a loaded weapon back and i wouldnt of either, but he never once asked if i had a carry permit or to see it i thought that was strange. so maybe it does show up on ur DL

He probably ran the serial number and saw it was registerd to you and did not take it further then that.

Some state's it pop's up when they run your plate.

People lot's of cop's ask because many people have gun's and beleive it or not shoot at cop's sometimes so I don't blame them for asking. From what I have heard it does not pop up when the run your plate or ID here, I have had some ask and some not ask. I think people are looking a little to deep into it.

 

[finity]

I have been pulled over and asked if I had any weapon's in the car and I don't have a liscence..... yet.

Many cop's ask.

Once I do have it and the cop ask's for it to run the serial number to make sure it is mine and not stolen then I have no problem with that.

Just because you have a LTCH does not mean the gun is not stolen...... There are people that buy gun's off of this site and I am sure do not have the serial number ran first so who know's if it is stolen even if you have a LTCH. Even during traffic stop's to issue a verbal warning cop's still ask for your ID and make sure you don't have any warrents or are driving on a suspended liscence....... they don't want to let someone loose that has a warrent or whatever, same for the gun, they just want to make sure it is your's and not stolen.

So do they inspect your Ipod to make sure it's not stolen? Or your wallet? Or your new microwave oven brand new-in-the-box sitting in your back seat? Or...? Shouldn't they be able to search your entire vehicle ...just to make sure nothing in it is stolen? If not then what's so special about a gun that you are OK with them "running the numbers"?

He probably ran the serial number and saw it was registerd to you and did not take it further then that.

NO. It is NOT registered to him. There is NO REGISTRATION in IN. Unless it was reported as stolen then the cop has NO IDEA who the gun belongs to.

People lot's of cop's ask because many people have gun's and beleive it or not shoot at cop's sometimes so I don't blame them for asking. From what I have heard it does not pop up when the run your plate or ID here, I have had some ask and some not ask. I think people are looking a little to deep into it.

So if a cop asks someone if they have any weapons & that person is of the persuasion that is likely to shoot a cop, do you think the person will admit to the cop he has a gun? Probably not.

The only people it "protects" the cop from are the people he doesn't need to fear in the first place.

That's not a good argument...er...justification.

 

[bft131]

I am sorry, but I still don't buy the "his own safety" crap. LTCH holders are among the LEAST likely citizens, statistically, to commit a crime.

He didn't happen to say whether he confiscates firearms from LTCH holders during traffic stops, did he?

As a matter of fact he did mention that...he stated that if someone hands them the LTCH with their license, he appreciates their honesty to let him know their is a weapon in the vehicle and as long as the driver is being cooperative he has no problems..He also went on to say that if the driver does not have his / her LTCH on them and they are close to home or local, he would take their firearm, allow them to drive to their residence, retrieve their LTCH and show him and he would give them back their firearm...

Not all LEO's are on powertrips, alot of them still are there to serve the public and help protect us......

 

[dburkhead]

Once I do have it and the cop ask's for it to run the serial number to make sure it is mine and not stolen then I have no problem with that.

Just because you have a LTCH does not mean the gun is not stolen...... There are people that buy gun's off of this site and I am sure do not have the serial number ran first so who know's if it is stolen even if you have a LTCH.

On this point:

If you have a laptop in your car, would it be okay for the police to run the serial number on that? After all, laptop computers can and do get stolen and how many people check to see if that secondhand laptop was stolen before they buy it?

Do you have an aftermarket stereo in the car? Should the police also run the serial number off of it to make sure that it's not stolen? Stereos get boosted all the time, to the point that it's a cliche.

What about that GPS on the dash? I know of at least one that was stolen (the one I used to own). Check that to see if it's stolen too?

How about running not just your license plate but the VIN. After all, it's pretty easy to put a new license plate on a stolen car--so long as the car is the same make and model as the one to which the license plate is associated, with you can't tell by running the plate.

For that matter there's a pretty good market for stolen car parts. Some of those parts have serial numbers. Should those, too, be checked against lists of stolen cars (which might have been parted out rather than kept intact)?

And maybe while he's getting your ID you can hand over your credit cards too so he can run them as well. Do you have any idea how much is lost each year via stolen credit cards?

Just how far are you willing to go in not having a problem with police searches and seizures without actual probable cause?

"If a man neglect to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example." Oliver Wendall Holmes.

 

[glockman23]

I have been stopped multiple times and asked if i have weapons. When i tell the LEO yes and I have a permit, thats the end of it. They never check my LTCH or my firearm and they have never took my firearm while they run my information. I always thought that was kind of weird. They dont know me from adam and they let me stay in my truck with a loaded handgun.

 

[j706]

FYI..Just talked to one of our local deputies while he was working out at the firehouse..Law enforcement in Indiana DOES NOT have the capability of telling whether we have a LTCH period..He stated that he wishes they did have that capability for several reasons; 1) For his own safety and 2) If the LTCH holder would be without his / her permit he could have that information.

As it stands now, if we forget our permit and have our firearm on our person, its an automatic go to jail issue...

Always have mine and a copy to boot...

It depends on what county one works. Marion and Hendricks can run a person for a handgun license via laptop (when it is working).

 

[E5RANGER375]

As a matter of fact he did mention that...he stated that if someone hands them the LTCH with their license, he appreciates their honesty to let him know their is a weapon in the vehicle and as long as the driver is being cooperative he has no problems..He also went on to say that if the driver does not have his / her LTCH on them and they are close to home or local, he would take their firearm, allow them to drive to their residence, retrieve their LTCH and show him and he would give them back their firearm...

Not all LEO's are on powertrips, alot of them still are there to serve the public and help protect us......

That sounds like a good honest cop to me, that is giving people the benefit of the doubt. I'll buy that cop a beer anyday!! (off duty of coarse) Thank you Sir for being taking care of the public and being courtiess!!

 

[bft131]

It depends on what county one works. Marion and Hendricks can run a person for a handgun license via laptop (when it is working).

Well this was a HCSD deputy...Known him for many years...No reason to lie to me....

 

[Tactical Dave]

On this point:

If you have a laptop in your car, would it be okay for the police to run the serial number on that? After all, laptop computers can and do get stolen and how many people check to see if that secondhand laptop was stolen before they buy it?

Do you have an aftermarket stereo in the car? Should the police also run the serial number off of it to make sure that it's not stolen? Stereos get boosted all the time, to the point that it's a cliche.

What about that GPS on the dash? I know of at least one that was stolen (the one I used to own). Check that to see if it's stolen too?

How about running not just your license plate but the VIN. After all, it's pretty easy to put a new license plate on a stolen car--so long as the car is the same make and model as the one to which the license plate is associated, with you can't tell by running the plate.

For that matter there's a pretty good market for stolen car parts. Some of those parts have serial numbers. Should those, too, be checked against lists of stolen cars (which might have been parted out rather than kept intact)?

And maybe while he's getting your ID you can hand over your credit cards too so he can run them as well. Do you have any idea how much is lost each year via stolen credit cards?

Just how far are you willing to go in not having a problem with police searches and seizures without actual probable cause?

"If a man neglect to enforce his rights, he cannot complain if, after a while, the law follows his example." Oliver Wendall Holmes.

Gun's are different when it comes to being stole, you know it, I know it, everyone know's it.

Gun's S/N's when registerd are also put into the system, computer's and other item's are not.

If the liscence plate comes back to another car or stolen a good cop will aslo run the vin........ even if it comes back clean but something does not feel right a cop will often run the vin. Say the guy stole a plate from a car just like his or swaped them. It does not come back stolen, the cop run's the vin and it comes back stolen. Beleive me, I have seen it happen.


Unlike many I don't like to cause problem's or give them and grief and in the end I end up ahead.


Your argument would be a very good one IF the item's you had listed are registerd in a system that cop's have access to .

 

[dburkhead]

Gun's are different when it comes to being stole, you know it, I know it, everyone know's it.

Any statement that includes "everyone knows it" is suspect. It means you haven't examined your assumptions.

You are right, however about one thing. Gun's are different in that they are arms and the right to arms is specifically listed in the Constitution. This defines the difference between guns and any of the other things I've listed.

Gun's S/N's when registerd are also put into the system, computer's and other item's are not.

Cite. You do realize that Indiana does not have gun registration. And while nobody believes that it's actually done that way, the government is forbidden from retaining NICS data and 4473's which might be used to create a de facto "registration." And neither NICS nor 4473's will provide any information on the millions of guns out there in private sales.

Automobiles, at least those licensed to be operated on the public streets, OTOH, are registered. Every. Single. One. Their serial numbers are entered into a public system. That information is available for stolen car reports. That VIN number is not only on the dash but on a number of other components within the car--parts that are stolen on a fairly regular basis and sold illegally.

And you don't keep track of the serial number of your laptop computer, GPS, and other high-value items so that you can provide that information to the police in the event of their theft? Weird.

If the liscence plate comes back to another car or stolen a good cop will aslo run the vin........ even if it comes back clean but something does not feel right a cop will often run the vin. Say the guy stole a plate from a car just like his or swaped them. It does not come back stolen, the cop run's the vin and it comes back stolen. Beleive me, I have seen it happen.

Or the guy didn't steal the plate: just acquired a stolen car like the one he had legally obtained previously (doesn't have to be all that exact--same make, model and, in many cases, "generation" rather than exact year is close enough).

Sorry, but considering the inaccuracy of your statement about "registration" of firearms I'm not willing to just believe you without supporting evidence.


Unlike many I don't like to cause problem's or give them and grief and in the end I end up ahead.

Your argument would be a very good one IF the item's you had listed are registerd in a system that cop's have access to .

Since automobiles and auto parts (at least those on which the VIN is provided by the Manufacturer--which is a surprising number cf. the concept of "matching numbers" among classic car enthusiasts) that's exactly that.

The other things I listed also have unique serial numbers which can be available to the police--needing only the victim to provide that information in the theft report--which is what would have to happen in most gun thefts anyway.

So, on the one hand we have things that are universally registered. On the other we have guns which, if half of the more than 300 million in the US are "registered" in a way that would be useful in determining whether a particular randomly seized gun is stolen it will be most surprising.

But that's really all a moot point since, even if every one of your claims were true (they're not, but if they were) then, well, my copy of the Constitution makes no exceptions to the 4th and 5th Amendments for "items that are registered so that the police can search and determine if they are stolen". It's just not there. Not in the Wikipedia one either. Heritage Foundation copy? Nope. Not there either. Funny thing that.

Your argument is ground to powder on the millstones of reality.

 

[Tactical Dave]

Any statement that includes "everyone knows it" is suspect. It means you haven't examined your assumptions.

You are right, however about one thing. Gun's are different in that they are arms and the right to arms is specifically listed in the Constitution. This defines the difference between guns and any of the other things I've listed.



Cite. You do realize that Indiana does not have gun registration. And while nobody believes that it's actually done that way, the government is forbidden from retaining NICS data and 4473's which might be used to create a de facto "registration." And neither NICS nor 4473's will provide any information on the millions of guns out there in private sales.

Automobiles, at least those licensed to be operated on the public streets, OTOH, are registered. Every. Single. One. Their serial numbers are entered into a public system. That information is available for stolen car reports. That VIN number is not only on the dash but on a number of other components within the car--parts that are stolen on a fairly regular basis and sold illegally.

And you don't keep track of the serial number of your laptop computer, GPS, and other high-value items so that you can provide that information to the police in the event of their theft? Weird.



Or the guy didn't steal the plate: just acquired a stolen car like the one he had legally obtained previously (doesn't have to be all that exact--same make, model and, in many cases, "generation" rather than exact year is close enough).

Sorry, but considering the inaccuracy of your statement about "registration" of firearms I'm not willing to just believe you without supporting evidence.


Unlike many I don't like to cause problem's or give them and grief and in the end I end up ahead.




Since automobiles and auto parts (at least those on which the VIN is provided by the Manufacturer--which is a surprising number cf. the concept of "matching numbers" among classic car enthusiasts) that's exactly that.

The other things I listed also have unique serial numbers which can be available to the police--needing only the victim to provide that information in the theft report--which is what would have to happen in most gun thefts anyway.

So, on the one hand we have things that are universally registered. On the other we have guns which, if half of the more than 300 million in the US are "registered" in a way that would be useful in determining whether a particular randomly seized gun is stolen it will be most surprising.

But that's really all a moot point since, even if every one of your claims were true (they're not, but if they were) then, well, my copy of the Constitution makes no exceptions to the 4th and 5th Amendments for "items that are registered so that the police can search and determine if they are stolen". It's just not there. Not in the Wikipedia one either. Heritage Foundation copy? Nope. Not there either. Funny thing that.

Your argument is ground to powder on the millstones of reality.

Well, all's I have to say then is go ahead and give cop's grief about wanthing to run your gun's S/N. I will not and we will both feel good about ourselves

Yes it is my right to carry a gun with a liscence...... however I am not going to take it to the extreme and tell a cop he can't see my gun or run it........ just my

 

[dburkhead]

Well, all's I have to say then is go ahead and give cop's grief about wanthing to run your gun's S/N. I will not and we will both feel good about ourselves

Just because they have the power doesn't make it right.

There's a difference between saying "this isn't the battle to pick" and "I wouldn't have a problem with it" followed up with defending the practice.

Yes it is my right to carry a gun with a liscence...... however I am not going to take it to the extreme and tell a cop he can't see my gun or run it........ just my

Now that's something different from what you said before which I will remind you was:

Once I do have it and the cop ask's for it to run the serial number to make sure it is mine and not stolen then I have no problem with that.

Just because you have a LTCH does not mean the gun is not stolen...... There are people that buy gun's off of this site and I am sure do not have the serial number ran first so who know's if it is stolen even if you have a LTCH.

(Emphasis added)

I would have a problem with it. I also would not resist at the scene. I'll take whatever action seems appropriate to the situation later.

 

[jmb79]

This ruling came down a few days ago: Indiana Appeals Court: Concealed Carry Not A License To Be Searched

At the bottom of the news article is a link to the actual decision. Good reading.